Stick clips for short people on sport routes

Short people should be spending their time running around in circuses or making toys or some such shit and not worrying about climbing.

I have used many times a alpine draw on to which I slide a stick of the one half of an inch pvc pipe. The sling slides into pvc easy and clip one biner on one side. the pvc is about maybe two inches or much more shorter than my sling I use. The length is to you to decide. Into the other end of the pvc I cut a notch across it. Into this notch the other biner to clip to the bolt can be inserted after it is clipped to the sling. Then I have a rigid stick to clip with. After I have made the clip, the pvc pipe slides down the sling and just stays there. I clip my rope and climb up more.

I have the same problem as your girlfriend also.

Travis Provin wrote: Or, just climb a bit higher. Are there really that many times where you cant clip the bolt at head or chest level? Climb a bit higher and know when its no big deal to fall

This isn't a viable solution many times, because it often takes stepping off a safe stance and making thin, committing moves which are meant to be protected. Now, if it wasn't run out before this part, that would be fine, but many times, it is easy climbing until this part (meant to be protected), and a fall off the thin area unprotected would mean a huge, dangerous fall (often with ledges). I'm guessing you're the height of an average man.

Travis Provin wrote:Take a Mad Rock trigger wire carabiner, put it on the rope end of a stiff, long dogbone. Increases your reach by a foot or so and its easy to clip to the bolts. It also works as a normal quickdraw if need be.

You've redeemed yourself. My favorite is the Mad Rock trigger.

rocknice2 wrote: It clipped great but did suffer a lot of nicks in the gates from the edges of the hangers. The worst part was, after clipping the far bolt I would try to switch out the draw. The Frog is so bulky that it was difficult to impossible, depending on the hanger. Once on a route that was bolted by a giant, chances are it wouldn't be just one bolt that was out of reach. I guess I could have bought more of them but I didn't go that way. That other biner with the gate capture thingy is a much better design.

I have a Kong Frog, though I haven't used it yet. Thanks for your analysis.

Luke Douglas wrote:Modify an extendable back scratcher. 6" to 8" long and light when not in use.

extendible Backscratcher sound like a good idea, with a soft sling.

bryans wrote:This is for route developers and their friends. You should be bolting the route in a way that anyone roughly 5 feet 2 inches on up can clip without going through the scary extra moves and exposure to longer and dangerous falls that you, as a taller person, won’t have to deal with. It’s pretty easy. I just drill the bolt about 8-9 inches lower than where I would want it at my maximum yet still solid and secure clipping limit (I’m 6 feet). The extra 2 foot fall that I might take with the bolt that little bit lower is not something I love consciously setting into potentiality, but that tiny extra bit of fall is almost always of no real consequence, and I leave behind a route that almost can climb while facing no more risk than I face. Yes, 5 feet 2 inches is an arbitrary number, why not make it ADA compliance and install a via ferrata if my goal is 100% accessibility, but I’d wager 90% of the “outdoor and leading” climbing population is over that height and, well, you can’t please everybody. If you are really height challenged you’ve probably already learned your safest option for leading some climbs is probably to just lead the route only after you have found a way to get the draws hung before you lead it. Not a perfect solution, I know, but I hope my fellow developers think of this issue. When you are already rap bolting, I do feel there is an obligation to put the bolts where almost all of the population can reach them without exposing themselves to risks you did not: that would be unfair and frankly kind of dickish!

I want to climb your routes! I'm fine with the 5'2" decision, because I'd be able to at least reach it with a stiffy. Even though 90% of the outdoor leading population is above that height, it won't affect them too much, they can clip it anyway, and makes the shorter people so much happier.

+1 for the Trango Beta Stick

I know of a couple of routes in Red Rock where this problem has been solved by adding several inches chain to a bolt. Clip the end of the chain. Seems to be an accepted long term solution there, because I've never seen the chain leave once installed.

Takes a bit more investment and forethought, but if it's something that is acceptable in your area and a climb you frequent it might be worth it.

Abram Herman wrote:+1 for the Trango Beta Stick

Will check it out... that way won't have to do the place/replace thing.

JK- wrote:I know of a couple of routes in Red Rock where this problem has been solved by adding several inches chain to a bolt. Clip the end of the chain. Seems to be an accepted long term solution there, because I've never seen the chain leave once installed. Takes a bit more investment and forethought, but if it's something that is acceptable in your area and a climb you frequent it might be worth it.

I've never seen chains except at anchors, but this is a great idea. I need to get in touch with developers and am willing to fund chains. It looks like I can buy some (mountain tools, backcountrygear) for $10 - $30 each. Or I am willing to fund additional bolts, which are more cost-effective. It sounds bad, but it seems some routes have been re-bolted with additional bolts anyhow. Back in the day I heard there would be like 1 bolt for a 40 foot climb. I also heard hardware around the country is starting to need replacement due to being steel plated (and not stainless steel) so this may be a good opportunity.

You can get a suitable chain for way less than that. BD you'll usually only need a few inches.

The Kong Panic, which I thought was only available in Europe, is the bomb. It is actually usable on lead one-handed unlike a lot of the other short stick clip options.
My GF has both sizes and loves them.

Ana Tine wrote: Will check it out... that way won't have to do the place/replace thing. I've never seen chains except at anchors, but this is a great idea. I need to get in touch with developers and am willing to fund chains. It looks like I can buy some (mountain tools, backcountrygear) for $10 - $30 each. Or I am willing to fund additional bolts, which are more cost-effective. It sounds bad, but it seems some routes have been re-bolted with additional bolts anyhow. Back in the day I heard there would be like 1 bolt for a 40 foot climb. I also heard hardware around the country is starting to need replacement due to being steel plated (and not stainless steel) so this may be a good opportunity.

These are nice-

climbtechgear.com/chain-dra…

Llati Wonki wrote:I have used many times a alpine draw on to which I slide a stick of the one half of an inch pvc pipe. The sling slides into pvc easy and clip one biner on one side. the pvc is about maybe two inches or much more shorter than my sling I use. The length is to you to decide. Into the other end of the pvc I cut a notch across it. Into this notch the other biner to clip to the bolt can be inserted after it is clipped to the sling. Then I have a rigid stick to clip with. After I have made the clip, the pvc pipe slides down the sling and just stays there. I clip my rope and climb up more.

There are a few ways to make your own for a couple of bucks.

Three versions including that great idea in the Quote

A simple wooden ruler wrapped in webbing and finished with ( duct ) tape.
A piece of Tubular webbing Stiffened by sliding a narrower stiffening 'rod' into it !

Can you whip on the Kong panic?

MarcYY wrote:Can you whip on the Kong panic?

Yes. I did. Because the mechanism that keeps the wiregate open (and then allows it to snap shut when slightly weighted) is otherwise inactive and doesn't affect the gate.

Here's another vote for the trigger wire.

A stiff draw with a trigger wire on the bolt clipping end works great for getting a little extra reach. I used hair ties as rubber bands to make the biner to draw connections tighter.

being 5'1 3/4" im good with the 5'2" thing, snd im loving this thread!

might get a panic just to have. might get a trigger wire too...
I don't sport climb much and have still run into this problem on some sport routes and even trad climbing; sometimes clipping chains can be scary when you're short and the final stance is for tall people...

The Petzl spirit draws are super long and sewn the whole way, perfect for use with a Mad Rock Trigger Wire, get's about a foot-ish more reach.

I might try finding the best selfie stick out there to modify.

Alexander K wrote: I was wondering if there is an extendable pole/stick clip that is light and small enough to climb with clipped to ones harness (ideally 1-4 feet and 1-2 lbs). While I imagine that most people would use something like this to work a sport route, I've recently run into the problem of poorly placed bolts on slab climbs being an issue for my girlfriend who is quite short with a negative ape index. On a lot of rap bolted routes with slabs she's been on recently we've encountered bolts off of ledges that she can't reach to hang a draw off of. Once the draws are hung this isn't a problem, but making committing moves off a ledge to clip a bolt often with a 10-15 foot runout below could have fairly nasty consequences and tends to stress both of us out. Any ideas would be appreciated (getting someone else to hang the draws isn't always an option).

I've seen hollow dogbones which allow for a wooden dowel to be inserted (Edelrid makes one), making for a long, stiff draw. This would allow her to clip the bolt without messing with a stick clip. If you cant find a premade one, you can make one easily. Just buy a really long dogbone and duck tape a wooden dowel to the back side. Just know that making the draw stiff like this increases the chances of it coming uncliped so be sure to face the gates away from the direction of travel to minimize this.

20 kN wrote:

I've seen hollow dogbones which allow for a wooden dowel to be inserted (Edelrid makes one), making for a long, stiff draw. This would allow her to clip the bolt without messing with a stick clip. If you cant find a premade one, you can make one easily. Just buy a really long dogbone and duck tape a wooden dowel to the back side. Just know that making the draw stiff like this increases the chances of it coming uncliped so be sure to face the gates away from the direction of travel to minimize this.

Is there any concern for the wooden dowel casing internal damage to the webbing over time?  Assuming the edges aren't rounded.

Cory F wrote:

Is there any concern for the wooden dowel casing internal damage to the webbing over time?  Assuming the edges aren't rounded.

You can easily round the edges with a piece of sandpaper in which it should be fine. I'd be more concerned about having a stiff dogbone with a stick in it attached to my harness which could jam into your side on a fall if it gets caught on a feature on the way down, not to mention stiff dogbones are far more likely to come unclipped from the bolt if you're not careful. Also, loading the dogbone over any type of edge would obviously break the wooden dowel.

Mark E Dixon wrote: These are really nice. http://www.kong.it/en/2-products/items/f38-aid-climbing/p420-panic Rock and Resole has the 45 cm length in stock. 30 cm backordered. 30 cm probably more practical, but you can clip the 45 behind your back to keep it out of the way. Plus 6 more inches of reach which can be handy in full on project mode. The stiffening rod is firm, but you don't feel like you will be skewered in a fall.

Rock and Snow in New Paltz has the 30 cm length.  Looks pretty nifty for the intended purpose.