Double boots & ski bindings

Hi all,

I'm facing a dilemma regarding ice/mixed/alpine boots that may be somewhat common so I thought I'd ask for other people's thoughts on this.

I own a pair of single boots (Scarpa Mont Blanc Pro), which I'm happy with and will continue to climb in, but am looking for a warmer boot for colder weather. Was wonder whether I should go with a supergaiter boot (e.g. Scarpa Phantom Tech) or a double boot (the new Scarpa Phantom 6000).

On the one hand the supergaiter single boot will perform better, and should be slightly warmer than my current boot, it might buy me another 10 degrees of warmth perhaps. Depending on what this surplus warmth value actually is, it could mean a lot of $$$ for very little added value over the single non-supergaiter boot, or it might turn out to be a worthwhile purchase. Not knowing what this surplus warmth value actually translates to in terms of something like "how much colder of weather will my feet tolerate" is making my decision harder than it should be. Anybody with any experience here, thoughts?

The double boot obviously provides the advantage of versatility (better for expeditions, better in colder weather) at a loss of performance in that range where the single nonsupergaiter boot wouldn't work but the single supergaiter boot would still be enough.

On a related note, anybody try using the phantom 6000's (old or new) or similar boots like the La Sportiva G2s with approach skis? I'm guessing they aren't stiff enough to be viable, but if anybody has tried, what was your experience?

I''ll start with ski question first. Modern boots in a Silveretta binding are in general too soft. As Dave mentioned fine for a road or a well traveled track. If the distance is not too much I just rather toss my boots in my pack and take my three-pin gear. That said I have used Silveretta and similar boots on Denali. Pretty sloppy on the down hill.

As for boots, both the Phantom Tech and Phantom 6000 both have an integral gaiter. The information not provided is what temperatures are you going to be out in. For the most part the Phantom Tech will probably serve you well overall. However, i would suggest that you also look at your insole and sock combination. One can do a lot with that.

For instance, I ditch the insoles and replace them with something like the Superfeet. But remember they take up some of the room. I also have different sock combinations that I wear some thicker than others. All depending on the temps.

Full disclosure - I climb in the both boots plus the Rebel Ultra Gtx (no longer available).

Thanks for the info.

Re the temps I expect to climb in, I'd say I'm likely to encounter -10F often enough to need to plan for it. Might flirt with colder, but I'm unlikely to encounter temps like that very often. I do most of my winter climbing in Colorado/Wyoming/Montana if that's any indication, and this year I've got my sights set on spending most of my time in RMNP, Cody/Hyalite and some objectives in the Tetons. Would like to be set up for Canadian Rockies and some more expeditionary stuff like the Ruth Gorge at some point within the next year or two.

I have experimented with different sock combinations, and I fit my boots to work well with pretty thick socks (e.g. SmartWool Mountaineer Socks + liners), but not until recently did I experiment with different insoles. That was to correct for a high arch I'd just discovered this summer, so I don't know yet how much warmth it will add in colder temps. Hadn't occurred to me to think about it.

I have Silvretta bindings for sale. $125 shipped w PayPal. I bought them used on here and never mounted them. ( u might need a few mounting screws) They'll be best on very mild terrain. What size boot do you wear?

Some discussion of skis and mountaineering boots here. Most on second page mountainproject.com/v/skis-…

Given what you are describing if you are not prone to cold feet and are not out climbing for more than 2-3 days I would suggest the Phantom Techs. You will find that the integral gaiter will keep your feet much drier than the Mont Blancs.

Once you move on to a season in AK get the double boot version. That said right now both boots have a new version out so a good time to find deals on the old versions. Which I actually like better, the new zipper is funky.

Dave Schultz wrote:I can only address your later concern / option regarding adding a ski into the equation. Many modern two-buckle AT boots climb exceptionally well: -TLT5 -TLT6 -Procline -Backland (no direct evidence, but it is a short BSL with a welt and it is lightweight) -likely countless others.

I'll add La Sportiva's Spectre to this list. Technically a 4-buckle, but the toe buckle is easily removable and probably not necessary for most folks. Climbs ice really nicely.

Thanks for the tips guys. One last question regarding drying out supergaiter boots,

Allen Sanderson wrote:Given what you are describing if you are not prone to cold feet and are not out climbing for more than 2-3 days I would suggest the Phantom Techs.

I don't do many multiday winter outings that involve sleeping in a tent or in the backcountry, but I do regularly do week long trips that involve sleeping in a motel or the back of a van. I've been able to dry leather boots out overnight under the circumstances. Do you think I'd run into any problems trying to keep something like the phantom tech's dry?

Bogdan P wrote:Thanks for the tips guys. One last question regarding drying out supergaiter boots, I don't do many multiday winter outings that involve sleeping in a tent or in the backcountry, but I do regularly do week long trips that involve sleeping in a motel or the back of a van. I've been able to dry leather boots out overnight under the circumstances. Do you think I'd run into any problems trying to keep something like the phantom tech's dry?

No you should be fine. Though depending on how much your feet sweat you might look at a VBL system.

Hundreds of people every year use any form of new double boots with silvretta bindings for 21 days on Denali. They are fine, but definitely not a 120 DIN boot. Not all that limiting though even with a 60lb pack and 40lb sled