What happened to the Millbrook, Gunks page

DaveBaker wrote: If you're adding routes to the area, then the onus is on you to research a little to understand the terminology BEFORE posting. You've feigned ignorance in a couple of your replies now, so I'll answer your question. How are you supposed to know the difference? You look it up.

I did look it up, I have a good memory. It's is in my local guide using roman numerals representing the decimal system. The system consists of five classes indicating the technical difficulty of the hardest section. Class 1 is the easiest and consists of walking on even terrain. Class 5 is climbing on vertical or near-vertical rock, and requires skill and a rope to proceed safely. Un-roped falls would result in severe injury or death. Originally, Class 6 was used to grade aid climbing. I, II, III, IV, V, VI.

So your argument is that I was not confused I'm just naturally ignorant. How do you know I was not confused? To quote Rich Gottlieb, "I do not read about climbing, no time for that, I just climb.". Good, you are an avid reader of climbing literature. So you lose the argument because I was confused, okay?

On the other hand did I confused you when you saw the rating for V and VI and assumed that the size of the cliffs had changed in NY? Must be because you and your boys keep bringing me back here. If so I apologize for confusing you. Maybe you guys want a reimbursement for monies you may have spent on the rental of excess equipment and securing Sherpa to help you carry supplies.

BTW I see you next to where the pinnacle used to be mountainproject.com/v/11159… You were too late. Too bad, I feel sorry for you.

My son is named after the Gendarme incident, a 20-ton slab of quartzite, perched precariously in a notch amid one of America's most spectacular rock formations (Seneca Rocks), looking like it might fall at any moment. On October 22, 1987, "the Gendarme", an isolated and prominent pinnacle of the Rocks, fell to the ground. Precisely seven days before the Gendarme fell my son had climbed to the top of the Gendarme before he was born in his mothers belly! Thus the name Joshua, Joshua marched around Jericho seven days where after the walls of Jericho came tumbling down. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts my son has been climbing longer then you have been alive on the rock after reviewing your photo. You should learn to be a little more respectful of your elders, i.e. me not my son that is. I do not want you to get confused again but you can take it either way.





Photos from summitpost.org





Good thing the block did not fall over when we were all on it, that was close. And the following is a video of my son now doing El Capitan with me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um3KUg02SY0

donald perry wrote: I see you like to create rope drag. mountainproject.com/v/10736… If I was there I would tell you to Stop and Comeback!

donald perry wrote: BTW I see you next to where the pinnacle used to be mountainproject.com/v/11159…

I see you like to upload what appear to be cell phone photos of guidebook pages you've drawn on with a pen.

donald perry wrote:Dick willoams knows about it.

I was speaking from more of an aesthetic standpoint.

One of these

That brings up a good point. I was going to use my drone to take some video. But I saw a sign over there saying I can't...what's the deal?

donald perry wrote: OK I take good pictures for you later, I'll use a 20' pole or a chopper or a plane or stand in the talus or something.

That seems a bit extreme. Though I do appreciate you running the gamut of technology from 20 foot pole all the way up to helicopter/plane to give me options. Your last suggestion of just standing and taking a photo seems like it would be pretty suitable.

donald perry wrote: Need someone to climb into the photos, you?

Im curious why you would need someone to climb into the photos? I appreciate the offer but I live in Las Vegas and I am saving my vacation time up at the moment.

After a lot of posts it seems like this goes no where.

Donald I think it's safe to say a lot of people think your entries were in bad style. The point s not to take away from the things you have contributed to the gunks over the years, but rather to emphasize that these entries are not consistent with the style of the area and do not reflect well on you.

It makes me sad, before all of this I knew your name as a hard climber who put up something unique at Millbrook. Now I know you as the dude who forced a bunch of weird Jesus referenced TR climbs into the Millbrook page, then refused to budge and inch when people asked you to reconsider.

There's still a chance for everyone to win here. Pick out the best of your TR lines, ones that could perhaps see a lead ascent one day, and take down the others. The preserve has asked for a low impact on Millbrook and I think MP users want clear, quality routes in the database. Most of all you get to be the guy who improved the climbing experience at Millbrook rather than dumping on MP just because you could.

Just think it over.

brian9 wrote:After a lot of posts it seems like this goes no where. Donald I think it's safe to say a lot of people think your entries were in bad style. The point s not to take away from the things you have contributed to the gunks over the years, but rather to emphasize that these entries are not consistent with the style of the area and do not reflect well on you. It makes me sad, before all of this I knew your name as a hard climber who put up something unique at Millbrook. Now I know you as the dude who forced a bunch of weird Jesus referenced TR climbs into the Millbrook page, then refused to budge and inch when people asked you to reconsider. There's still a chance for everyone to win here. Pick out the best of your TR lines, ones that could perhaps see a lead ascent one day, and take down the others. The preserve has asked for a low impact on Millbrook and I think MP users want clear, quality routes in the database. Most of all you get to be the guy who improved the climbing experience at Millbrook rather than dumping on MP just because you could. Just think it over.

And the guy who started this thread puts together the most clear and well thought post out of them all. Well said Brian. Couldn't agree more.

T Roper wrote:Top rope FAs are like riding a moped....

Convenient, fun, environmentally friendly, economical.. just not cool enough for some?

Nicholas Gillman wrote: That seems a bit extreme. Though I do appreciate you running the gamut of technology from 20 foot pole all the way up to helicopter/plane to give me options. Your last suggestion of just standing and taking a photo seems like it would be pretty suitable. Im curious why you would need someone to climb into the photos? I appreciate the offer but I live in Las Vegas and I am saving my vacation time up at the moment.

Actually, new photos are a very bad idea, that is why I use the chopped up blurry Dick Williams photos from his guide. The reason the other photos are here are just to clue you in that I am telling the truth, now that I have done that, just as with my Millbrook movies on Redirectionalism, they have now been deleted ... along with any unnecessary repetitive information. And after giving it some thought I think that the white cliff should come down and renamed for private use only for people who climb there. There should be a password that should be changed every so often to keep it private. As far as the question of adding 5 star FA TR's that simply continuing a tradition of recording FA. Head on ascents on certain ground at Millbrook are simply not possible, and the last thing we need is a fatality. Most of you guys are frankly cluless. Preventing accidents is what we need to be thinking about and not all this hillbilly mumbo-jumbo demanding leads on X TR's before they are recorded. For that reason the more information that is available for people who climb there, the better, and this is where the white cliff is a really great tool. But if you are of that group of people that are not going to put this information to use ultimately this information should not be available for you and you should not be allowed to view it. You wouldn't know what to do with it anyway. We don't need to advertise.

If we do a lot of advertising then at some point there will have to be regulation or in some cases the banning of climbing.

I think all we need to know about is the guide and a little history of the climb.

Interested to hear from RGold....

Let's make Millbrook Great Again

donald perry wrote: Over the next year I am going to meet with my brother and some Millbrook names and the Preserve to see if there is interest, and then see if we can come up with a solution to control information, and use of the cliff to prevent accidents. In the future expect to see climbing by permit and that all X climbs be by TR only. Solo climbing at Millbrook will not be tolerated.

I would do anything I possibly could to vehemently oppose any such proposal. More bureaucratic regulation is NOT what the climbing community needs. If this draconian, backwards step is how you propose to salvage a win in your sad toprope-in-a-teapot MP battle, you're even more unhinged than I thought.

The number of people who could weigh in and haven't is telling,

if one is familiar with Donald he has a bunch or strengths, with his dedication, being Almost enviable.
This dedication shows in serious 'tenacity'

The way that one can balance this personality trait, -as one, that is one of-
the corner stones of personality traits needed to be a great climber.

christopher adams wrote: Convenient, fun, environmentally friendly, economical.. just not cool enough for some?

Fun but really not worth going around spraying about it.

Most experienced climbers have plenty of cool TR lines they share with their friends and partners, the thing is they don't go out of their way to spray about it. Maybe Donald should write a book, his attitude is entertaining.

I haven't said anything because I think the less said about Millbrook the better. I'd be more than delighted if the entire Millbrook page disappeared.

That said, MP is all about beta, and there has never in the past (that I know of) been a notion of too much beta on MP---there are descriptions of which hold to grab on a twelve-foot boulder fer chrissakes.

There is, unfortunately from my perspective, a Millbrook page. Donald has given Millbrook beta. Seems like the end of the story to me.

LOCALS ONLY BRO!1!!

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
There is a Secret place the climbers go
Where rock can be found white as snow

With No permits or badges or bolts or crowds
Only rock and sky and birds and clouds.

Its to far the people say
To much time in the travel
I'll be walking half the day
I'll play on some other gravel

Who sees this far rock and its glory
Dicieded to come near and tell its story
Climb its routes tall and scary
Why isn't THAT...Donald perry!

What's he doing those climbs are old
All those story's have been told
There is nothing left to be had
His climbing style must be bad

He is pulling somthing a trick a sceam
Maybe he likes to just be mean
No! we won't go look at your map
We can tell from here it's a trap

And so it was, no one went
And Donald got ALL the first ascents.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
There is a Secret place the climbers go
Where rock can be found white as snow
With No permits or badges or bolts or crowds
Only rock and sky and birds and clouds.
Its to far the people say
To much time in the travel
I'll be walking half the day
I'll play on some other gravel
Who sees this far rock and its glory
Dicieded to come near and tell its story
Climb its routes tall and scary
Why isn't THAT...Donald perry!
What's he doing those climbs are old
All those story's have been told
There is nothing left to be had
His climbing style must be bad
He is pulling somthing a trick a sceam
Maybe he likes to just be mean
No! we won't go look at your map
We can tell from here it's a trap
And so it was, no one went
And Donald got ALL the first ascents.

Gold

rgold wrote:I haven't said anything because I think the less said about Millbrook the better. I'd be more than delighted if the entire Millbrook page disappeared. That said, MP is all about beta, and there has never in the past (that I know of) been a notion of too much beta on MP

There is. You were the most outspoken opponent of the proliferation of beta on Lost City on this website.

I would argue that for similar reasons Millbrook is better left in a "low beta" state. Something closer to Christians website.