Anchors, rebolting, and developers on single pitch routes: request from a crabby old lady

Start moving bolts down a foot or so for the shorter climbers and they start trying to clip from one move lower down and complain they are set too high.
I´m 6ft and set bolts at maximum mid-forearm height OR to be clipped at the waist as you climb past OR somewhere between, up to the climber to work out what´s best.
It is indeed all top-roping anyway once you fall off!

kenr wrote: (Note that Plated-Steel hardware is designed to get somewhat corroded on its visible outer surface -- that's the "sacrifical anode" process).

Carbon steel bolts are coated with zinc for the main purpose of trying to prevent corrosion. Aside from real sacrificial anodes made out of zinc and used on boats, almost no fastener is designed by the manufacturer to corrode. The manufacturers try to prevent corrosion, not enable it.

As far as mixing metals to create anodes, that's a bit of a runaround. The correct solution is to use a stainless steel bolt and hanger in the first place so galvanic corrosion is not an issue. If you're up on a route replacing the chains and notice the bolts are plated steel, why not do the job right and replace the carbon steel bolts too? Then you can leave knowing the problem was solved permanently (more or less).

kenr wrote: Choosing Plated Steel over Stainless-Steel for an external chain and quicklink has the advantage of either matching the metal in the underlying invisible-buried-in-the-rock (unverifiable) bolt (if the old bolt is also Plated Steel) -- or acting as a "sacrificial anode" to delay corrosion in the underlying invisible bolt (if the old bolt is Stainless Steel).

Placing a carbon steel link on a 100% stainless bolt is not really beneficial to the bolt. Corrosion is not really an issue as a 100% stainless bolt will last 50+ years in most non-marine environments anyway. More importantly though, while the carbon steel link might act as anode, it can also destroy the stainless steel by compromising the passive oxide layer which is largely responsible for making stainless steel corrosion resistant in the first place. When stainless steel is made, part of the process is to make the metal passive via a chemical bath. The bath removes contaminants including free iron and it allows the chromium in the metal to create an oxide layer which protects the steel from corrosion in use. When carbon steel/ iron is allowed to rust in direct contact with stainless steel, the rusting iron can compromise the very thin oxide layer present on the stainless bolt, which could result in localized, accelerated corrosion of the stainless material.

We need to start setting multiple bolts for each stance to accommodate every height. Ableism has no place in a Progressive, equitable and just community like ours. Ratings need to go away as well because of the detrimental effect they have on the disenfranchised majority who are not privileged enough to spend hours training. For that matter, every claim of a send, flash, redpoint or on-sight is an act of oppression and needs to stop now! Y'all need to check your privilege.

Mike Lane wrote:We need to start setting multiple bolts for each stance to accommodate every height. Ableism has no place in a Progressive, equitable and just community like ours. Ratings need to go away as well because of the detrimental effect they have on the disenfranchised majority who are not privileged enough to spend hours training. For that matter, every claim of a send, flash, redpoint or on-sight is an act of oppression and needs to stop now! Y'all need to check your privilege.

Mike, no need to exagerate!

We could just hang perma-draws of assorted lengths on each bolt.
More environmentally friendly.

20 kN wrote:When carbon steel/ iron is allowed to rust in direct contact with stainless steel, the rusting iron can compromise the very thin oxide layer present on the stainless bolt, which could result in localized, accelerated corrosion of the stainless material.

OK so there's possible benefit in not mixing metals when you are developer with tools and have full control over the hardware inside and out. But the key point here for a "non-developer" who just wants to solve an external problem is that ...

for the situation where you're not replacing the underlying bolt, and
the underlying bolt might be Plated Steel,
and more so if it's an older bolt where you strongly suspect (based on your knowledge of USA community history?) that it's Plasted carbon steel,
then ...
Not to use Stainless Steel externally for quick-link or chain, because it could accelerate the corrosion of the non-visible old bolt.

And it is true that inmodern practice in a major USA climbing region without special corrosion issues, experienced respected deveopers have switched to Stainless Steel for the underlying bolt and for the hanger -- but routinely hang Plated-Steel quick-iinks and chains and mussy-hooks off those Stainless-Steel hangers and bolts.

Ken

Mark E Dixon wrote: Mike, no need to exagerate! We could just hang perma-draws of assorted lengths on each bolt. More environmentally friendly.

But that excludes the initial ascent, as festoonery requires set up while lowering. You are engaging in Ableism, a form of hate. Why are you so hateful?

Mike Lane wrote: But that excludes the initial ascent, as festoonery requires set up while lowering. You are engaging in Ableism, a form of hate. Why are you so hateful?

Are you prejudiced against hateism?

I'm triggered!

Mark E Dixon wrote: Are you prejudiced against hateism? I'm triggered!

Ugh. Now I need to go spend a half hour in a safe space and consider my if actions have caused you any discomfort or invalidated your feels in any way.

You two may need a cry room and puppy therapy.

J. Albers wrote: The gentleman that taught me to bolt (and he is over six feet tall) used the following general rule for bolt and anchor placements: from the good stance, he makes all hangers reachable with the tip of his elbow.

Are you talking about a certain man who put up half the routes in the New River Gorge? I spoke to his wife once at Sandstonia who explained the same theory. It's comical that people would argue against this, especially after climbing his routes.