Practice falls on gear

I really like the perspective Will Gadd gives in this video:

m.facebook.com/story.php?st…

I think spending a lot more time than most people do on top rope practicing trad placements and falls is a powerful tool for climbing safer and harder.

Thanks for sharing! I really like his approach to gear, esp. his point about the cam blowing up high. It's miscalculating situations like that that leads to so many dangerous ground falls IMO.

Helen,

Do you own any cams?

Frank

FrankPS wrote:Helen, Do you own any cams? Frank

Lol! I said up thread this was hypothetical for myself, just pondering while belaying my trad rope gun! He did enjoy the climb we were on, lots and lots of options, so he could mess around and try out everything, dinky nuts to a giant cam.

And, this easy climb had a big variety of holds, also, which was nice for the old lady. Fun, too!

No, Frank, I own no cams, but they still live in the same house.

Helen

I agree: falling on gear with a bolt underneath it was good for experience and helped peace of mind. I already have the experience to know what good pro looks like, but subjecting it to test falls in a variety of situation still taught me more than I expected and will help me evaluate marginal pro even better in the future.

Well, i’ve told this story here a few times, but i think another iteration is in order.
Early in my climbing ‘career’ ( <3 months) i lead Bishop’s Terrace in the valley. 5.8. It was a push, did not fall, but i stitched it up. Behind me was a guy who flowed up, placing little gear. We’ve all seen it, someone who knew what the hell they were doing.
After exchanging pleasantries, i commented that it looked as if he had climbed the route before.
“I lost count after one thousand times” was his response.
“!!”
He admitted that he was a Yosemite valley guide, had been for years, and used to free solo it for fun until he had kids.
He then asked how i felt. To which i said something to the effect of “insecure and scared”.
“What grade do you lead?”
“This was my first valley 8. I have lead 5.9, but this was stiffer”
And then he asked, with a twinkle in the eye “And what grade do you follow?”
“I’ve top roped or lead 10’s” says i.
“And the difference?”
“I don’t trust the gear!”
To which he imparted this wisdom.
“Get down from here, go four routes to the left, Church Bowl Tree. Aid climb it, up and down, over and over, testing the gear, seeing how gear works. Learn to trust gear, how to place gear, get over the gear fear”.
My partner and i did just that.
And a month later i was leading 5.10’s.
Since then i have busted into trad 11’s, not often, but i can. I have taken countless falls (50’ my biggest) on gear, learned what works and what doesn’t, been in some scary situations, but through it all, i have found that the thing which holds us back the most is the mind. Monkey Mind, plays with you in those little moments. Quiet the monkey mind, it’s amazing what you can do.
That and a willingness to take the big whip!
HA!

Leading 10s in less than 3 months?! Baller.

Yeah, i really don't understand people reticence to lead at their level. Don't get me wrong, i get gripped, and i get in trouble, and i don't always push. And i love to work hard routes on toprope! But i am older than Old Lady H. (!) and have been climbing 5 years, don't have much time to get it all in!
Goal for this season is put up a 5.13 and send it. !!
My passion these days is developing hard sport. Well, hard for this old bod. Just finished developing a 5.11 11 pitch trad line on an unclimbed wall. And no, not on MP, yet.
And Old Lady H., go to it! My wife and i have an organic farm, are both working artists, many things in common. Get on the sharp end, it will thrill ya!
And stay healthy. Best advice is to be careful and be able to climb another day. At our age, booboo-owies take their toll!

Old lady H wrote:Just hypothetical question here. Thought of this while belaying my trad leader today. So, I was thinking about how gear placements don't get tested much, beyond bouncing on them, or, hoping you aren't about to die. On a single pitch vertical route with clean falls, I was thinking the placements could all be tried with a fall, as an exercise, just before cleaning them, if the climber is being lowered and is on top rope belay, the belayer is patient, and no one is in a hurry. The climber could unclip the rope from the piece, clip back into it with a loop tied from dynamic cord, attached to the belay loop with a locker. They could then climb up a bit, leaving the slack in the climbing rope, and take their fall. If the gear holds, great, if not, the top rope fall would be pretty minimal. I realize the aim in trad is to not fall, but I know from my own experience that trust in the systems is partly from having falls, and knowing the stuff works. What you know is less worrying than the pure trust in the unknown. I'm assuming it could be the same for those new to gear, also. Like I said, just pondering out at the cliff today. Not a trad climber, just a belayer! And I managed to climb today! Yay! Best, Helen

climbing friend old lady H.

this appears as the unnecessary mental masturbation about falling and overly complicated. study placements, bounce test, aid climb toprope solo, lead some 5.6 choss gulleys for trad vision quest, and then gain the experience falling on nest of 3 or more pieces on high up on vertical clean climbing rocks if you so are desiring. But doing this a few times does little, as you would have to do it constantly hundreds or thousands of times. Or just be pushing yourself on steep well protected climb on rocks in which you can place many pieces gear.

the climbing it is so scary. Most people will never fall or trust their gear and will remain mediocre forever.

do not fall the trad route unless you are having the experience and climbing for probable at least 5.10s and/or it is clean for the falling./

Aleks Zebastian wrote: climbing friend old lady H. this appears as the unnecessary mental masturbation about falling and overly complicated. study placements, bounce test, aid climb toprope solo, lead some 5.6 choss gulleys for trad vision quest, and then gain the experience falling on nest of 3 or more pieces on high up on vertical clean climbing rocks if you so are desiring. But doing this a few times does little, as you would have to do it constantly hundreds or thousands of times. Or just be pushing yourself on steep well protected climb on rocks in which you can place many pieces gear. the climbing it is so scary. Most people will never fall or trust their gear and will remain mediocre forever. do not fall the trad route unless you are having the experience and climbing for probable at least 5.10s and/or it is clean for the falling./

Climbing friend Aleks,

As always, your fishy breath speaks truth.

Happily, I will be experiencing the falling many, many, times, as I climb at/above my top rope limit many, many times.

I do anticipate the glorious trad climb in my future, as a second.

I am one who has no desire to do the splatting, especially with my friends there to clean up, yet, I do not have the fear.

If I could have remembered how to spell your most excellent name, I would have written you in on my ballot. Very fortunate I did not, as on reflection, why would I wish that hell on your most excellent meatiness? I would not.

I do have one question I trust you to answer: is it a micro aggression for unmeaty, feeble, old ladies to wear a sports bra and/or Lycra on the rocks for climbing? I confess my shallow self would like one photo that has the appearance of being a real climber. Photoshop can only do so much.

Best, Helen

Old lady H wrote: Climbing friend Aleks, As always, your fishy breath speaks truth. Happily, I will be experiencing the falling many, many, times, as I climb at/above my top rope limit many, many times. I do anticipate the glorious trad climb in my future, as a second. I am one who has no desire to do the splatting, especially with my friends there to clean up, yet, I do not have the fear. If I could have remembered how to spell your most excellent name, I would have written you in on my ballot. Very fortunate I did not, as on reflection, why would I wish that hell on your most excellent meatiness? I would not. I do have one question I trust you to answer: is it a micro aggression for unmeaty, feeble, old ladies to wear a sports bra and/or Lycra on the rocks for climbing? I confess my shallow self would like one photo that has the appearance of being a real climber. Photoshop can only do so much. Best, Helen

climbing friend,

i am apology, but your believe is almost certainly incorrect that you must second and that you may "do the splatting" were you to lead trad and work up your way on up into harder trad up, including falling.

This is limiting belief and you may be choosing to believe it or not. You may lead trad and you may push yourself without taking that much risk. perception that it has to be extreme danger is false yes, unless you have over boldness and go for great runouts for glorification before the gods, or poor protection routes climbing above your ability unprepared. always utilize the protection.

your lycra and your sports bra is not an aggression of micro-type. but you appear hell bent on denigrating your own self and limiting your success by implying you are not "real climber" and believing yourself incapable. I think age excuse is most likely totally false or blown way out of proportion.

I do yes like fine layers of massive rippling meat, maximum pulling power always crushing, always crushing, forearms creating their own gravitational field, but I am hearing that many peoples of smaller type, they have excellent strength to weight ratio, thrusting upwards utilizing some sneaky techniques and even with the wee arms!

do not self identify your own self as a "toproper," and quit toproping if you would like to get better at leading. it is only teaching your own self an idea that you can't lead, it is too difficult, it is too scary, must stay within comfort zone while it slowly contracts, when this is not true. lead everything you are climbing unless it is truly dangerous runout ledgefalling blocks or far beyond your limit, yes?

give your own self more credit and if you are willing to really try, you will experience many improvements and bold flash most glorious like my own self also.

Aleks Zebastian wrote: I think age excuse is most likely totally false or blown way out of proportion.

Wait until you are >55 to say that!!

Muscrat wrote: Wait until you are >55 to say that!!

climbing friend,

how you say, "bullshit?" It is true you may be taking longer to recover your own self, or more care may be taken to avoid injury, but mostly it's just an excuse like so many others. look no further than man begins climbing at 33 and sends first 5.14 at age 59, climbing 5.13 still at age 68:

climbing.com/news/lee-sheft…!

rockandice.com/lates-news/l…

The real question is as you age how long may you be able to maintain half-erection or the wanting for sex?

Aleks Zebastian wrote: climbing friend, how you say, "bullshit?" It is true you may be taking longer to recover your own self, or more care may be taken to avoid injury, but mostly it's just an excuse like so many others. look no further than man begins climbing at 33 and sends first 5.14 at age 59, climbing 5.13 still at age 68: climbing.com/news/lee-sheft…! rockandice.com/lates-news/l… The real question is as you age how long may you be able to maintain half-erection or the wanting for sex?

Oh just wait!
I started climbing at 55, am hitting 5.12+, working towards 13. It hurts, training is...well let's just say i am past my formative years! Tendons just don't grow like they once did...
Yeah, i read the very inspiring article about him. Looks like i started 20 years late!
It helps to climb with people young enough to be grandchildren.
No excuses. How many pro athletes (does golf really count?) are over 50?
And what is sex?
;)

On the note of pushing grade or gear and only doing one at a time, it's best to make sure that you're ACTUALLY relaxed and comfortable with lead falls on sport first as well. Doing that on lead in the gym is great, but it's still not the same as real life. Get on steeper sport routes outside and fall a few bolts up a lot, until you can push your grade and take unexpected lead falls. After that's dialed in start falling on gear.

Also make sure that your lead falls on gear aren't in blocky terrain.....heel bruises are no fun.

Yeah, falling is very different in trad. There are definitely "no fall" situations where a fall would likely result in serious injury or death...very different from your padded foam sport climbs ;).

Ted Pinson wrote:Yeah, falling is very different in trad. There are definitely "no fall" situations where a fall would likely result in serious injury or death...very different from your padded foam sport climbs ;).

Hmmm... how serious is "serious"? Or is it you who's not "serious"? :-)

As it happens, since you made me think about it, the only injured I know first hand, are one concussion (outside sport fall), one meniscus (inside blown clip sport lead, decked) and a poor lady who broke bones in both feet (four foot boulder fall in gym).

Aleks, thanks for the ass kicking, errr, encouragement.

Helen

Some parts are just older than others.

Muscrat wrote:Yeah, i really don't understand people reticence to lead at their level. Don't get me wrong, i get gripped, and i get in trouble, and i don't always push. And i love to work hard routes on toprope! But i am older than Old Lady H. (!) and have been climbing 5 years, don't have much time to get it all in! Goal for this season is put up a 5.13 and send it. !! My passion these days is developing hard sport. Well, hard for this old bod. Just finished developing a 5.11 11 pitch trad line on an unclimbed wall. And no, not on MP, yet. And Old Lady H., go to it! My wife and i have an organic farm, are both working artists, many things in common. Get on the sharp end, it will thrill ya! And stay healthy. Best advice is to be careful and be able to climb another day. At our age, booboo-owies take their toll!

Thanks!

Ted Pinson wrote:Yeah, falling is very different in trad. There are definitely "no fall" situations where a fall would likely result in serious injury or death...very different from your padded foam sport climbs ;).

I do live in NC but we have no fall situations on lots of sport routes here, 20ft+ first climbs on hard routes, 60ft+ runouts, etc. I find climbing sport in almost any other state extremely safe compared to here.

But there are no fall areas for pretty much any type of climbing, my friend took a 25ft fall on a high ball boulder problem and is lucky he didn't break anything. I do know some high balls that have V5 starts but 35ft topouts on V1 easy climbing that are pretty much no fall situations cause the ground is covered with lots of rocks.

ViperScale wrote: I do live in NC but we have no fall situations on lots of sport routes here, 20ft+ first climbs on hard routes, 60ft+ runouts, etc. I find climbing sport in almost any other state extremely safe compared to here. But there are no fall areas for pretty much any type of climbing, my friend took a 25ft fall on a high ball boulder problem and is lucky he didn't break anything. I do know some high balls that have V5 starts but 35ft topouts on V1 easy climbing that are pretty much no fall situations cause the ground is covered with lots of rocks.

But that's NC sport climbing; very different from the sport climbing known to the rest of the world. Sport climbing, in theory, isn't supposed to have no fall zones, provided the climbing is steep enough and you don't blow a clip.