Crags are NOT Dog Parks

as you guys argue about the environmental degradation caused by crag dogs, cats kill 1 to 3 billion birds a year in the US...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/outdoor-cats-kill-between-14-billion-and-37-billion-birds-a-year-study-says/2013/01/31/2504f744-6bbe-11e2-ada0-5ca5fa7ebe79_story.html

Fehim Hasecic wrote:Dogs are useless these days. Most of them can't hunt, can't track, can't protect, they just eat and shit.

Since when is hunting, tracking or protecting the only utility of a dog? My dog receives tummy rubs better than any other animal on the planet which, for my purposes, is much more preferable than hunting.

My dog guards our house when we are at work. He looks big and threatening, but is really shy and wary. He greets us every day, makes us laugh with his antics and drops tons of love on us daily. That alone is purpose enough.

There are therapy dogs but I've never heard of therapy humans.

Gunks wrote:There are therapy dogs but I've never heard of therapy humans.

They're called therapists.

Em Cos wrote: They're called therapists.

Would love to meet a therapist whose very existence makes you feel good (and not charge a penny).

Gunks wrote: Would love to meet a therapist whose very existence makes you feel good (and not charge a penny).

So you don't value their work... but you have heard of them.

I would call free therapists "friends" - who you feel better after being around them. You don't pay them, and sometimes they even buy you a drink after a rough day.

Back to dogs.... they're really just an extension of humans and are no longer a part of wildlife. Even if they hunt, true wildlife gets nervous hearing dogs because the dogs' job is to track them and have them killed.

Although I do agree the never-ending increase of people is worse, destroying wild land, killing all other species, creating garbage and pollution on an exponential basis. And this is embodied by the "crag baby."

Tim Lutz wrote: my dogs have a very small carbon footprint and won't reproduce. Can you say the same for the child you created? and the children your child will create? and.... Oh and at 6 months my pit bull was guarding the house, can your baby do that?

You sure do bark a lot. Most likely your dog is a service animal, after all it has to guard your house since you're not capable of doing that. I don't own my baby, can't say much about your dog since you eloquently described it. Comparing babies and dogs is beyond me, but hey, to each their own.

A few weeks ago at my local crag, a place where there actually is a leash law (which many ignore), some jackasses climbing nearby let their dogs run all over the place. The dogs were not aggressive, but they were intrusive. When one of them stopped over my rope and proceeded to shake off after plowing through the creek there, I finally lost it and yelled over, "Can you control your fucking dogs?"

For a second, they looked at me as if I was a real dick, and then they got ther dogs under control.

For about 5 minutes.

I love dogs, but more and more, I can't stand dog owners.

Before we know it climbing's gonna turn into golf or tennis with all these new "rules".

CnC wrote:Before we know it climbing's gonna turn into golf or tennis with all these new "rules".

What rules? "Be considerate of other people" is somehow a new rule?

A few weeks ago, I was out for a run on my local country gravel roads. A pack of 4 dogs came racing towards me. Since I'm a big fan of dogs in general, I slowed to a walk and extended a hand of "friendship". One of the four dogs was not agreeable to my offer and chose to sneak up behind me and give me a glancing nip on the leg. I told the owner, who came running up, that I was okay but if her dog tried that again I would kick the living shit out of it.

The lesson: I love my dog. I do not love your dog. My dog stays home. If your dog does not stay at home, I expect it to be as behaved as you (fingers crossed).

At the crag, your dog is an extension of you. If your dog pees on my stuff, it would be as if you peed on my stuff. Expect consequences.

^^^^ Yes this!

"My dog stays home."

Wow, sounds like an awesome time for the dog.

climbing was so cool before it became a mainstream activity...

I'd like to echo Drewdogg. I bring my dog to crags and tie him on a tree or my heavy climbing bag. My partner and I really can't afford to send him to daycare every time we go climbing. I hope people here understand that climbing outdoor can take a whole day. That is really long time for a dog and dog daycares close at 7pm-- sometimes it's even difficult to get back on time to pick up the dog.

Here are my two cents:

1. My dog responses well under commends and he is on leash when we climb, but the only thing is that he often starts whining when I climb. I guess in general dogs feel insecure when the owner leaves them, even for a well-behaved dog. This part needs training (my dog is one year old) and this is what my partner and I are doing at crags. I have seen many older dogs behave very well when the owners are climbing. So yes, crag dogs are trained, not by nature.

We try our best NOT to disturb others while we are under this training phrase and we don't mind criticism at all. We would like to react to situations and control our dog to ensure all are happy at crags. I am all for politely let the dog's owner know if the dog disturb you. It's really not the dog's fault, the responsibility is on human. In the meantime, some empathy for both dogs and owners would be nice.

2. While I do bring my dog and put him on leash at crags, I really dislike the fact others let their dogs OFF leash. When there are other dogs running and playing around, it is only nature that my dog wants to do the same. This excites my dog and often I don't know how to react to it. And very often, this happens in ways that multiple dogs involve. It is VERY HARD to control a (young) dog when other dogs are off-leash running and playing. As a dog owner and lover, I also dislike climbing while many dogs running around at crags! It is simply unsafe! It also makes responsible dog owners' life harder!

I'm far less concerned with the dogs, than the fact that these terrible, irresponsible owners allow them to run free WITHOUT A HELMET!!!

NOT ON MY WATCH!

Curtis Baird wrote:I was climbing up at Hidden Valley yesterday. I saw at least 5 unleashed dogs and at one point there were more dogs than people at a wall. All day I had dogs walking on my rope and every time I tried to eat I would have a group of dogs around me. Not to mention there was dog crap everywhere. The answer to this problem is simple. People either need to not bring their dog or keep them leashed were they cannot bother anyone and pick up after them. I feel like this is obvious.

You and 50% of the world. Unfortunately the other 50% are entitled asshole who feel they have the right to take their dog wherever they want...