2:1 Haul Setup - Rate my rigging

kevin deweese wrote:Looks awesome. A few nitpicky points, The lower pulley doesn't take as much of the work as the upper pulley and may be able to be replaced with a less-efficient-but-lighter pulley depending upon how heavy the overall kit is.

I knew someone would comment on that, I made a note in the post that I'll replace the pulley in the spring... probably a Petzl Mini.

kevin deweese wrote:Will get higher efficiency the thinner the cord that's travelling through the pulley so the 8mm "zed cord" can be replaced with thinner cord. I use Bluewater Titan 5.5mm cord for my setup. Thinner cord (when strong enough) will be lighter and less of a cluster and allow the kit to pack up a bit smaller.

my pulleys are all 7mm minimum, according to manufacturer's specs.

kevin deweese wrote:Your Protrax doesn't really do much besides catch the line. Unless you're planning on doing 1:1 hauling later on the route and need a device that's rated for humans to weight it (like spacehauling), you can save additional weight by using a lighter progress capture pulley such as a micro or minitrax. As long as you're not spacehauling, the microtrax is plenty efficient enough for 1:1 as long as you're not a skinny guy like me or a 4 foot, 13.625 inch guy like Mark. ;-P

To haul 1:1 is why I have the protrax in there... also, while I'm 185lbs, my partner is 5'5" and 110lbs. But, very good points. By next spring, I'll pick up a Petzl Basic for the inverted grab and move the micro to the progress capture... thanks for the input.

Ultimately, I'll swap some stuff out and play around a bit. Thanks for the input

Clayton, I've never seen, or have never noticed where a pulley specifies a range of acceptable cord sizes. Are you talking about pulleys that are also rope grabs, I.e., a mini-Trax/pro-Trax kind of thing?

Mark Hudon wrote:Clayton, I've never seen, or have never noticed where a pulley specifies a range of acceptable cord sizes. Are you talking about pulleys that are also rope grabs, I.e., a mini-Trax/pro-Trax kind of thing?

Petzl lists minimum and max, the range is the same for their Rescue Pulley

I just checked my SMC Pulleys. They all show maximum diameter but not a minimum. I can see a maximum but why a minimum? What problem would it cause?

Too small and perhaps it can get wedged between the pulley and the metal, as could happen with the old Protraxion if not allowed to rotate freely.

I thought of that but I've never suffered that problem.

Check This out light compact amd 7:1

iscwales.com/Products/Progr…

Is the only reason to use a basic as the inverted ascender rather than one of your main ascenders is so you can leave your 2:1 kit assembled? Is there any other reason to not just use one of the ascenders you already have? Also, what's the best good top pulley to use? Man o man this thread is helpful. Thanks to all.

Yes, The use of a basic is to avoid getting your personal gear involved in the hauling system.

There are a million different pulleys to choose from. I use Petzl Partner pulleys. They are light with 93% efficiency and relatively affordable.

Shern wrote:Is the only reason to use a basic as the inverted ascender rather than one of your main ascenders is so you can leave your 2:1 kit assembled? Is there any other reason to not just use one of the ascenders you already have? Also, what's the best good top pulley to use? Man o man this thread is helpful. Thanks to all.

I use a SMC Swiftwater Pulley to allow a BIG Petzl Williams biner to encompass it. Mark Hudon uses a similar SMC green 2" PMP pulley that was a little more expensive so I went with cheaper. Make sure whatever you use is ball bearing. My first experience with these rigs was one my partner Stew brought up Mideast Crisis. The pulleys were lightweight nylon, and the top one melted halfway through the haul. Bogus.

SMC Swiftwater Pulley
SMC 2" PMP pulley

The only downside to using a regular handled ascender instead of a basic is a few more inches of rope between the ascender and the micro traxion that stretch on each stroke (not important, maybe a percent of lost efficiency), and it makes things a little harder to be a self contained system. It would cut about 6 ounces you have to lug around for the WHOLE pitch, which ain't nothing.

My rig, shameless knockoff of Mark's:

The leader doesn't need a set of jugs. I never take two sets. People will say "well, what happens if you fall and need to get back up to your high point"? And I will reply that the need to jug back up to your high point is only necessary in extremely rare situations. And then, hey, you know what? You have the haul kit with one ascender and a micro Trax and if you can't figure out how to jug a line with that, well then really maybe you shouldn't.....

Mark Hudon wrote:The leader doesn't need a set of jugs. I never take two sets. People will say "well, what happens if you fall and need to get back up to your high point"? And I will reply that the need to jug back up to your high point is only necessary in extremely rare situations. And then, hey, you know what? You have the haul kit with one ascender and a micro Trax and if you can't figure out how to jug a line with that, well then really maybe you shouldn't.....

Well, some of us are scaredy cats. Oh wait, maybe its just me that brings the kitchen sink just in case, you know, I get stuck and only a kitch sink will fit in the crack. Where are my tricams again?

The leader can tag the jugs if they need them after a fall as well

Kevin's right.

At my big wall seminars I go over unrealistic situations. Someone will ask "what happens if X happens and then Y happens?" Such as: "Should I take toilet paper with me when I lead because what happens if monkeys fly out of my butt and then shit on my head?"
First of all, How often do monkeys fly out of your butt? Second, Now that monkeys HAVE flown out of your butt, what are the chances of them shitting AND hitting you?
Get my point?

Leading with your jugs is sort of the same thing. So where, what route in Yosemite can you fall and not having your jugs be a MAJOR problem.

Very valid point. I guess I would still like to take them on very traversing pitches,which are not too common really. Otherwise I have to admit they are a safety blanket I should outgrow. I am a shitty climber for sure, even more so in recent years, so I am always extra paranoid to a fault.

Same deal with taking an extra rope to lower out the bags. I tell people to get the topo and do the math. If you have only 2, 60m ropes, you have 400 feet of rope available. MOST pitches on El Cap are less than 150 feet. At the very worst, you are left with 50 feet of haul line (and if you are smart and tricky, you can also use the remainder of your lead line), more than enough for 99% of all lower outs. In all of my El Cap experience, I have climbed exactly one route that requires a 40 foot lowerout line (and a 70m rope).
And don't get me started on the "what happens if my lead line gets a core shot" argument. 95% of the time the solution to that one is piss easy and obvious. The remainder separates the guys who really know what they are doing from the rest.

Ultimately, don't forget that we are all just kids playing with our toys and mentally masturbating about tips and tricks. IMHO, only 3 things matter for a successful big wall ascent.

1) You didn't fuck up the route.
2) you didn't fuck up anyone else's experience.
3) you got to be top safely and had a lot of fun.

4) You look good and livepost your entire trip to instafacetwitterbookgram.

Hi all 

Looking for for some advice if you must use lockers for the pulleys, or are ovals OK?  I don't see much chance (zero) of the pulleys coming out of the carabiners whilst hauling and they are strong enough. 

Feeling tight at the moment so don't want to go buy lockers for the rig when I have ovals spare.

druss uk wrote:

Hi all 

Looking for for some advice if you must use lockers for the pulleys, or are ovals OK?  I don't see much chance (zero) of the pulleys coming out of the carabiners whilst hauling and they are strong enough. 

Feeling tight at the moment so don't want to go buy lockers for the rig when I have ovals spare.

yes ovals are actually the best shaped lockers to use with pulleys so you will be fine.