The Devils Lake top rope cluster Fu&k thread...

Doug Hemken wrote: The hardest thing to know here is whether or not any of the blocks are rockers. A light tug with your hand won't always tell you.

I wouldn't place gear behind a detached block to begin with though, I might bollard it.

Alex A wrote:I've seen top rope anchors fail, 30yrs ago, 2 guys where top roping Berkley, we where on the Mouse's Tail, seen blur of a climber and a rope come down, he was being lowered and the anchor failed, he fell about 80ft, landed in the boulders, bad head injurie, and the ankle was the size of a grapefruit, smelled like he crapped his pants, they only had two anchors in, sling around a large boulder, and a stopper, they did not equalize anchors, stopper pulled and the top rope biners, slid off the good sling, as they put it on top of the sling not thru it, most falls from the top are from Opps, slips or miss steps or screw ups, using anchors to protect yourself near the top of the cliff, good idea, more deaths have happened from opps then climbing at the D.L. Thought the anchor with the cordelette was safe, from what I could see, used the same crack many times. it looks like its on Iron Mongers.

I really don't get how this accident occurred. How is it possible for the TR biners to slide off of a sling??

Ted Pinson wrote: I really don't get how this accident occurred. How is it possible for the TR biners to slide off of a sling??

Because they didn't clip the biner through the loop of the sling. Instead they clipped the biners around both sides of the sling. Like a sliding x without the x. Also known as clipping the basket.

When the nut popped, it was pulled right through the biner, unthreading the sling.

Steve Sangdahl wrote:As Gukol points out in post above a bounce test close to the ground is a sound idea. For many years now myself and climbing partners will test not only the TR set up but also your harness buckling job, knot and belayers device by climbing up a few feet (4 or 5 feet) and fully weighting the system. This confirms that all systems are go while you are still "close" to the ground and you can now concentrate on the climbing movement. Get back on the ground and start pullin down. Free yer mind and your body will follow! We also do this when leading too. On sport routes when you get to the first bolt, clip in ( a locker is a wise choice) , look at your knot, alert your belayer, and hang on the system. Hopefully It confirms all systems are go while your close to the deck and once again frees up yer mind. Same deal for trad leads you just have to make sure you are "very " confident in that first piece. Even just holding both sides of the rope and weighting your harness checks both harness and knot. I should add that I mainly do the above to check my knot, harness, and to see if' my belayer is awake, I'm not to worried about my TR set up. At DL on our top rope set ups some one would grasp both sides of the rope and would swing around like a crazed monkey. Good enough for us. Sorry for the spew. Now puke!

+++++ for the swing like a monkey test.

I've always hung on the rope of TR set before roping up. My climbing partner showed me that the first time out and its been part of my routine for 20+ years. Never realized people don't do it.

Agree,,,,it just seems natural for you to grab your rope, and haul down on it just because it's there hanging in 'yer face as you check that harness buckle out once more.

I just climb...

The next post Better be a pic of an anchor or else!

Heading up to the lake tomorrow. Anybody wanna come?

I'm going up on Friday for 4 days..Will build some wickedly awful anchors just to take pics and get some feedback to stir the topic.(not for use, just samples of what badness has been seen over the years). Gonna be rainy, so might as well have some fun.

Hoofers is teaching an anchors clinic for 10+ people on Saturday, find them and you should be able to photograph some good newbie mistakes before the instructors get around to correcting them. Nobody will actually be climbing on any anchors, though.

Oh, Jon, here ya go, this powerpoint, found on Darcy's:

Andy P. wrote:Hoofers is teaching an anchors clinic for 10+ people on Saturday, find them and you should be able to photograph some good newbie mistakes before the instructors get around to correcting them. Nobody will actually be climbing on any anchors, though. Oh, Jon, here ya go, this powerpoint, found on Darcy's:

Huhhhh?? No part of this makes the smallest bit of sense. Nice! The photo. Not the class. Whoops. Class nice, photo WTF???

Andy, this is the same person as on page 17 (and the one I thought Jon would have seen on Stretcher - this is different from either of those anchors). We've talked. The yellow webbing is actually pretty strong for his TR soloing. The quicklinks might be OK, too - he wasn't sure what the test on those was. We didn't discuss the blue nylon rope, but I suspect it probably has a pretty low breaking strength.

Jon's right, one or two pictures in 3 pages is NOT enough.

Andy, as an exercise you should have each student wander around and take a photo of an anchor they question, then post them here (and take some device that let's you discuss them together).

Torsten Johnson wrote:Heading up to the lake tomorrow. Anybody wanna come?

Hey Torsten, I'm down to climb there! I'm able to come on Friday and climb until Sunday! Let me know if you would like to climb together!

Andy P. wrote:Hoofers is teaching an anchors clinic for 10+ people on Saturday, find them and you should be able to photograph some good newbie mistakes before the instructors get around to correcting them. Nobody will actually be climbing on any anchors, though. Oh, Jon, here ya go, this powerpoint, found on Darcy's:

What. The. $&@&??! That is the most bizarre thing I've seen. Is that a Quicklink that they ran the rope through?!

Ah yes, you are right, this is the same as page 17, just closeup. I was right there in person - with all the time in the world - and I even I could not figure out what was going on. Best part was this this guy was aussie rapping off this thing, seriously!

I'm going to make one anchor at the clinic this weekend (for teaching purposes) that is purposely bad. Things like loops tied with figure 8 bends, dyneema slings girth hitched, tipped out cams, slipknot powerpoint... I hope someone in this thread stumbles upon it!

Here's another one for ya jon on top of the Dark Wall, the good old totally non redundant one tree anchor... hey wait that's my gear marking tape... wtf!

..and one sling, one unlocking biner, one, one all the way. Nothing is doubled, let alone the tree itself. Awful.

Looks good enough to me. I'd totally bring up a second or rap off that thing.

Woodchuck ATC wrote:..and one sling, one unlocking biner, one, one all the way. Nothing is doubled, let alone the tree itself. Awful.

Gokul wrote:Looks good enough to me. I'd totally bring up a second or rap off that thing.

I am very much in the middle of these two opinions. It's not awful, but it's nothing I'd be happy to come up to as a second. The sling around the tree is a non-redundant single-point-of-failure as are either of the non-locking carabiners attaching the "tree sling" to the "equalizing sling". Throw another sling around the tree, use its associated 'biners to reverse-and-oppose with the existing non-lockers and this becomes an anchor I'd be happy to come up to as a second. A tree that big can make an excellent single-point anchor, but the rigging still needs redundancy - I hate trusting my life to the entirety of a single sling and/or a single non-locker - both of these errors are present.

I'd have some real questions for a partner who brought me up on this as a second. Not the least of which would regard its internal inconsistency - bomber redundancy in the "equalizing sling", but it's irrelevant because the "legs" it is equalizing are not independent.

James M Schroeder wrote:I'd have some real questions for a partner who brought me up on this as a second.

+1. I'd probably rap off it myself if needed, since I'm the one risking it. But I would not belay someone else off of it and I'd be annoyed if I got to the top and found a partner belaying me off of it (unless a huge storm was coming or something).