CAMP Nano 22 vs. Metolius F.S. Mini II

i have camp nanos on my all my cams, and photons for my trad draws / alpine draws. I think the photons are great and the rope runs wells, easy to use with a gloved hand, easy to clip. The nanos i have noticed a few manufacturing issues with gates not closing due to nose interference or gates sticking, other than that both biners are great.

cyclestupor wrote: Has anyone else experienced these problems, or did outdoorgearlab just have bad luck?

I found photons which were purchased last spring to have very soft gate tension when new, but also uneven tension from one biner to the next. Get a little dirt in there and it's going to not snap closed.

The nano 22 has a much snappier gate than the photons. After one year I had *one* nano racking biner which wasn't closing. Cleaned it like you would a cam and it was back to snappy again. I'm sure that it was just dropped in dirt at the end of a route.

Loved the size of the Nano 22 but ultimately abandoned them because they would always spin on my draws and on my cams. Their low mass is great in the pack but the same low mass would inevitably have them facing the wrong way when I was trying to clip them.

I ended up using braces rubber bands to cinch them in the orientations I needed as a stop gap solution but it ended up not being versatile enough when I needed to break apart draws or do any shenanigans on my pro.

Eventually swapped out all my alpine draws and racking biners with the Petzl Ange S and never looked back. Way more satisfied with performance.

Ange S = 28g
Camp 22 = 22g

132 g difference on my double rack (red x4- #4 C4) which is more than acceptable for me based on the benefits.

I bought a set of the older Camp Nano 23s when they were on sale at the local shop. I really don't like them. The lettering is raised metal, with sharp edges. Running my rope through is almost like dragging it across a file. I ended up filing down the lettering to try and smooth them down.

I will say that they're big enough that I've not had any issues clipping, and my rope is a burly 10.5 mm.

George Wu wrote:I bought a set of the older Camp Nano 23s when they were on sale at the local shop. I really don't like them. The lettering is raised metal, with sharp edges. Running my rope through is almost like dragging it across a file. I ended up filing down the lettering to try and smooth them down. I will say that they're big enough that I've not had any issues clipping, and my rope is a burly 10.5 mm.

Nano 23s suck... Nano 22 is the truth!

George Wu wrote:I bought a set of the older Camp Nano 23s when they were on sale at the local shop. I really don't like them. The lettering is raised metal, with sharp edges. Running my rope through is almost like dragging it across a file. I ended up filing down the lettering to try and smooth them down.

I have a bunch of Nano 23s, and while they do have raised lettering, I don't see how it would be rubbing on the rope. It is on the sides of the spine and the top of the carabiner, in an area where it is recessed or inset relative to the rope bearing surface.

I have a bunch of biners from other brands (such as BD) that also have raised lettering, doesn't seem to be a problem.

D-Roc wrote:The nanos i have noticed a few manufacturing issues with gates not closing due to nose interference or gates sticking, other than that both biners are great.

It doesn't instill a lot of confidence in my partners when I have to say "Don't forget to close the gate after placing the green alien" as they take off on lead with my rack. I really love the Nano 22s but you've got to be careful about the sticky gate defect.

Emmett Lyman wrote: It doesn't instill a lot of confidence in my partners when I have to say "Don't forget to close the gate after placing the green alien" as they take off on lead with my rack. I really love the Nano 22s but you've got to be careful about the sticky gate defect.

Have you tried hot soapy water and a couple drips of cam lube? I had one, out of my rack of doubles, get sticky. A bit of dirt and grit came out of it, snappy as new.

I switched my racking biners over to the nano22's and now regret it. Many of them have had their gates begin to stick open in just a short time. I clean the pin with white gas and then put a touch of cam lube on them and they begin to function like new again.
Some of my nano22's began to stick just barely open so it was difficult to tell they were not fully closed. Emmett's post just above shows this perfectly on the green alien. This is especially scary because you may not notice that the gate is partially open.
I still use the nano22's but I inspect them all of the time now, I also plan on moving away from them. Because of this issue with the gate I wouldn't recommend to to anyone. You shouldn't have to clean your biners all the time to keep the gates closed.

Wow, I have had no issues at all, sorry that you guys are having trouble with the gates. Keeping my fingers crossed that I don't run into the same!

Nick Drake wrote: Have you tried hot soapy water and a couple drips of cam lube? I had one, out of my rack of doubles, get sticky. A bit of dirt and grit came out of it, snappy as new.

Yeah, they're soaking right now in fact. Trouble is that this is a recurring problem, and sometime you just don't realize it's happening. I really like the Nano 22s, but you've got to be vigilant to make sure the gates are snapping back every time you use them.

Those are some scary photos - particularly the just-barely-open ones that you might not notice. I'd be sending them all back and getting some other brand.

John Albright wrote: I switched my racking biners over to the nano22's and now regret it. Many of them have had their gates begin to stick open in just a short time. I clean the pin with white gas and then put a touch of cam lube on them and they begin to function like new again. Some of my nano22's began to stick just barely open so it was difficult to tell they were not fully closed. Emmett's post just above shows this perfectly on the green alien. This is especially scary because you may not notice that the gate is partially open. I still use the nano22's but I inspect them all of the time now, I also plan on moving away from them. Because of this issue with the gate I wouldn't recommend to to anyone. You shouldn't have to clean your biners all the time to keep the gates closed.

That's dangerous. Any biner who has a gate that does not close needs to be retired immediately. If the gate is open even the slightest and you fall on it, you limited to 7kN open gate strength, which can be achieved on a really hard lead fall. Send them back to CAMP. The best way to get CAMP to fix this is to send back every defective biner every time so they get the message.

Alex Rogers wrote:Those are some scary photos - particularly the just-barely-open ones that you might not notice. I'd be sending them all back and getting some other brand.

To be clear, these are otherwise great biners. They're small, light, and strong, but somehow just large enough in hand so they're easy to use. The gate action is substantially better than the Nano 23s, and they're cheap to boot. You just have to be aware that the gates have a tendency to stick, so look them over every couple of days out. I'd forgotten to check for a while, and that's what led to those gates sticking. After a good soak today and lubing with graphite powder they're all back in action and good as new.

Guess it depends on your tolerance for finicky gear, but in my mind the good outweighs the bad. FYI - A friend got his rack pack replaced by Camp, but I think the new ones have the same quirk.

20 kN wrote: That's dangerous. Any biner who has a gate that does not close needs to be retired immediately. If the gate is open even the slightest and you fall on it, you limited to 7kN open gate strength, which can be achieved on a really hard lead fall. Send them back to CAMP. The best way to get CAMP to fix this is to send back every defective biner every time so they get the message.

Very fair point. I use them as racking biners and usually extend so they're aren't load bearing, but you're right that it's an accident waiting to happen. Someone somewhere is going to get hurt if we don't insist on higher standards. Not to mention a friend lost my #2 last month when it fell off her harness many pitches up, presumably because of a sticky gate. That's real money!

Wow! That 'should' be a recallable design defect.

That is more than just a sticky, needs a clean effect. The spring action of the offset wire clearly has an issue.

No love for the metolius minis?

I'm kinda surprised by that, I'm using them on cams and like them pretty well. They were recently redesigned and handle a little better.

I tried the camp nanos and had two that had really rough edges where the wiregate was peened into the biner body. It was bad enough it'd snag a sling, which I really didn't like.

Either way, I find them both too small for general use, but do like the weight reduction for racking cams.

Big fan of the minis, I have large hands and use thick ropes, So not my favorite all around beener by all means. But its definitely a great specialty piece, for walling/aid etc. Has many uses/benifits.

Emmett Lyman wrote: To be clear, these are otherwise great biners.... Guess it depends on your tolerance for finicky gear, but in my mind the good outweighs the bad.

My tolerance for life-critical gear that repeatedly doesn't work, in a way that is sometimes not obvious, is close to zero.

Not being smart or disrespecting you Emmett - but the good (in this case a couple of grammes) does not remotely outweigh the bad (worst case it can kill you) in my mind. I just can't imagine climbing with karabiners that may or may not close, and may do so in a way that I probably won't notice when I'm actually climbing.

Emmett and John, when did you purchase your Nano 22s? Would you mind sharing the batch number?