What is the most times you tried a project?

How many goes have you given to a project?

me, I've tried certain routes 75-100 tries before finally getting a redpoint, Ive also spent 75-100 tries with no redpoint. I truly love pushing it the absolute max. I always say if you can onsight or get in a few goes, you aren't really trying hard enough...

Yeitti wrote:How many goes have you given to a project? me, I've tried certain routes 75-100 tries before finally getting a redpoint, Ive also spent 75-100 tries with no redpoint. I truly love pushing it the absolute max. I always say if you can onsight or get in a few goes, you aren't really trying hard enough...

The most burns I've done is maybe 25 on TR and another 15 - 20 on lead. If you're living somewhere with limited climbing (as I did), then projecting might be the only option. But it really doesent make much sense to me to project the shit out of a climb for a week at a destination level crag when there are a thousand other routes to get on in the area. I've found that by choosing variety, I have learned a hell of a lot more about climbing and as a result I climb harder and better now than I did when I was projecting .12+s every weekend.

The problem with projecting is you're only learning the movement that's specific to the climb you're working on, and your technique will likely be poor as it usually is when climbing above your limit. When you try to crank out as many different climbs as possible by choosing quantity over projecting, you get experience on everything--roofs, faces, crack, slab, ect--and as a result become a much better climber than you'll ever become projecting a select few climbs. You might not be able to say you "climb 5.13", but you'll onsight harder and you'll be a better climber overall, and that is far harder than projecting routes ever will be to me. Being able to onsight 5.11 anything--crack, slab, roof, sandstone, granite, whatever--is far harder than being able to send a select few hard face climbs.

3.
Projecting is literally the most boring thing in the world.

Todd Ra wrote:3. Projecting is literally the most boring thing in the world.

Ditto

I'm not sure how many burns I gave on this thing, but it took me over nine years to send a boulder problem in my home area. Not the highest grade I ever climbed by a long shot, but the physicality and style just seemed to beat me down. I gave up on it probably five times through the years, only to walk past it and get roped in again and again.

Similar to the comment above, when I travel to a crag or boulder field on vacation, I purposely stay away from my limit grades, so as to get in more mileage.

The most attempts I've ever put in is around 15 but I'm definitely an onsight climber. Maybe more on a Boulder but that's not really climbing anyway. I can see why people project but for me, I won't live long enough to climb all the routes I want to do, so I'm happy with getting on as big of a variety as I can and onsighting the shit out of 'em even if it's not "pushing my limits."

There's a balance to be had. For sure, projecting is a requirement for hard climbing, but there is a point of diminishing returns for long term progression. Personally, I've gone a bit over 20 tries. At that point, I really start to loathe the process of doing the same routine (same warm ups, same nagging sense of inferiority). It's good to have something high on your list to achieve, yet quick redpoints (2 sessions) have a place for both practicing tactics of projecting while still getting variety of movements. This has been discussed at length by Horst, Andersons, and Steve Maisch. Perhaps if you're on try 45, throw in the towel for a couple of months, train specifically, and come back better prepared.

That being said, lapping 5.11 day after day will not get you to 5.13. You have to project. I think people who write off projecting as lame are masking, perhaps subconsciously, a fear of failure. Yes, it's humbling and ego shattering to get on a route and fall repeatedly on every move, using a stick clip to get your sorry ass through a crux. But when you float it 15 tries later, it's a feeling that is truly hard to put into words. Sorry, I'm carrying on...

So yeah, about 20 tries for me, but the next one looks like it will exceed that.

evan h wrote:. I think people who write off projecting as lame are masking, perhaps subconsciously, a fear of failure.

I think this is a good point.

Personally I have never projected any climbs. I have climbed a few climbs a second time if I was back in the area and didn't get the send last time. There are so many climbs that it is hard for me to want to go push on a 12 (most 11's I can get up clean or on a fall or two depending on the style). I started to feel like I was running out of good easier climbs and started climbing Trad so it is a whole new learning a grade moving experience now.

Now I feel like I should go try a 12 since I never have (I have a lot more 11's I want to climb though).

One other thing that is an issue for me is no one I climb with realistically climbs as hard as I do. It is hard to be climbing with people who have no shot of getting up an 11 on TR. I don't care how hard they climb but I want them to enjoy the day and not just belay me on hard stuff.

My longest projects have always been new routing...for an established route, I went back to one 6 times,,,only fell 2x..it was pretty serious.

I'm on a Boulder project for the FA for over a year now, may be a V 14, anyone want to come over and make a FA I give them a place to stay...

Parker Wrozek wrote: One other thing that is an issue for me is no one I climb with realistically climbs as hard as I do. It is hard to be climbing with people who have no shot of getting up an 11 on TR. I don't care how hard they climb but I want them to enjoy the day and not just belay me on hard stuff.

This is another good point Parker, and something that's a barrier to people trying harder stuff. Basically, climbing is selfish, and projecting is 10x more selfish! Ideally, you find partners who have similar outlooks and are willing to work with you on your goals. For instance, an early run up a project will potentially take over an hour. When I'm resting for a redpoint burn, I'll wait an hour or more to find that sweet spot between being ready to fire and not cooling down. That's quite the departure from the back-and-forth TR lap routine that many are accustomed to in the gym or at moderate crags. For me, either my partners are just as dedicated to projecting as me (or worse), or the expectations are clear. If I seek out new partners, I'm very clear about how the day will look (i.e. lots of falling!). Also, I try and avoid projects at crags that have little else to offer besides the one king line. It's not fair to convince your buddy to climb the two 1-star 5.10s while you get to have fun on the 4 star classic.

Although sort of silly, Andrew Bisharat wrote a pretty good book 5 or 6 years ago all about sport climbing, with an emphasis on projecting amazon.com/Sport-Climbing-R…. Much of it applies to hard trad headpointing as well. It's worth a read if you are wanting to wade into that realm.

evan h wrote:I think people who write off projecting as lame are masking, perhaps subconsciously, a fear of failure.

No really, it isn't. I climb for enjoyment and I have no desire to repeat the same climb over and over again. That is just boring.

To repeat a climb that you can't climb over and over again isn't superior climbing and it isn't better for building strength. It is just learning moves to one particular climb, that to me isn't a beneficial or enjoyable part of climbing.

If other people want to repeat routes over and over again then great for them. But there is no need to insult others in the process.

evan h wrote:That being said, lapping 5.11 day after day will not get you to 5.13. You have to project.

You absolutely don't have to 'project' to improve in skill and strength. Climb regularly at you limit and you will improve. Sure at the high grade end some climbs may not be feasible to most without rehearsing the moves. But rehearsing the moves just so you can tick a grade is the epitome of grade chasing.

(Not that I haven't done that myself. I've hung on bolts (or gear) and worked moves on sport climbs that were several grades higher than my onsight level. But if I'm counting grades, I'm looking at onsight trad.)

patto wrote: No really, it isn't. I climb for enjoyment and I have no desire to repeat the same climb over and over again. That is just boring. To repeat a climb that you can't climb over and over again isn't superior climbing and it isn't better for building strength. It is just learning moves to one particular climb, that to me isn't a beneficial or enjoyable part of climbing. If other people want to repeat routes over and over again then great for them. But there is no need to insult others in the process. You absolutely don't have to 'project' to improve in skill and strength. Climb regularly at you limit and you will improve. Sure at the high grade end some climbs may not be feasible to most without rehearsing the moves. But rehearsing the moves just so you can tick a grade is the epitome of grade chasing. (Not that I haven't done that myself. I've hung on bolts (or gear) and worked moves on sport climbs that were several grades higher than my onsight level. But if I'm counting grades, I'm looking at onsight trad.)

Whoa now, clearly you have taken personal offense to what I've written, which was not directed at you. It's simply an observation I've made which has been corroborated and written about by many others before me. It's not just in climbing, it's in sports, business, and is part of the human experience. Lots of people don't want to push their limits, physical or emotional, because there is an inherent risk of not succeeding. It's a sense of vulnerability and is far from my own opinion or an attack on you. I simply disagree that I'm insulting anyone.

And the grade chasing debate has been discussed ad nauseam. Yes, I do try and complete climbs at harder grades, because grades are a system used to establish route difficulty. I'm not sending resumes out to companies with my stats. I want to climb harder climbs because 1. They're simply more fun and require much more nuanced movement, 2. They're usually less crowded, 3. They're generally of higher quality, and 4. I like to push my physical and mental boundaries. Of course you can improve without projecting, but the pace is slower and you will likely never feel the satisfaction of completing something at (or near) your physical limits. Also, it's well known that projecting improves your onsight grade, so it's not as simple as just doing the same moves until you send.

To be clear, I'm not saying you're a bad person, weak, or inferior if you don't like to project. I'm simply saying that there may be something about you as a person that drives your decisions when choosing a style of climbing. By the way, I view projecting as equal to big alpine or wall objectives. Obviously completely different, but each individual is throwing him or herself out there at risk of complete failure. I think this, and not simply numbers, is what motivates people to go beyond cragging easily within one's ability.

s.price wrote:I succeed because I failed over and over again. Michael Jordan

Exactly.

Check out this article and video by Ethan Pringle on his experience with La Reina Mora in Spain, rockandice.com/climbing-new….

I think the article paints the experience exceptionally well. I've read this article several times since it was published, usually when I'm in that self-loathing, close-to-the-send phase that I so often find myself. Well done.

Personally, I've tried to strike a balance between projecting and quantity. I very rarely (if ever) go to a crag with the sole intention of projecting a single route. Instead, I'll arrive with the mindset that I will try the route I may want to eventually send, but also with the intention of climbing a variety of other routes.

I may not be onsighting 5.12+, but I certainly feel comfortable throwing myself at that grade when I go somewhere simply because of the sheer quantity of routes I try to climb anytime I go out. As an aside, I have been enjoying projecting ";Shagg It"; (12d) at Shagg Crag because the sequence, position, and aesthetics of the route just can't be ignored!

Again, just my two cents.

Maybe 20ish. For bouldering it's much more. Most routes I'll just try once, whether or not I send them and just move on. The main thing for me an projecting is that it's amazing routes that are still fun to climb every time. Some routes are just so awesome and fun that projecting them is a true joy. It's fun to have stuff dialed too.

I don't generally project routes.

There are some local climbs that are just beyond my limit, that I will take a single run at each time I visit that particular crag, often making small improvements in how well I do, though not always. I will rarely to never take more than one run up the climb any particular day. Over 10+ years, I may have accumulated something in the range of 20 tries on the route I've tried the most.

evan h wrote: Whoa now, clearly you have taken personal offense to what I've written, which was not directed at you. It's simply an observation I've made which has been corroborated and written about by many others before me. It's not just in climbing, it's in sports, business, and is part of the human experience. Lots of people don't want to push their limits, physical or emotional, because there is an inherent risk of not succeeding. It's a sense of vulnerability and is far from my own opinion or an attack on you. I simply disagree that I'm insulting anyone. And the grade chasing debate has been discussed ad nauseam. Yes, I do try and complete climbs at harder grades, because grades are a system used to establish route difficulty. I'm not sending resumes out to companies with my stats. I want to climb harder climbs because 1. They're simply more fun and require much more nuanced movement, 2. They're usually less crowded, 3. They're generally of higher quality, and 4. I like to push my physical and mental boundaries. Of course you can improve without projecting, but the pace is slower and you will likely never feel the satisfaction of completing something at (or near) your physical limits. Also, it's well known that projecting improves your onsight grade, so it's not as simple as just doing the same moves until you send. To be clear, I'm not saying you're a bad person, weak, or inferior if you don't like to project. I'm simply saying that there may be something about you as a person that drives your decisions when choosing a style of climbing. By the way, I view projecting as equal to big alpine or wall objectives. Obviously completely different, but each individual is throwing him or herself out there at risk of complete failure. I think this, and not simply numbers, is what motivates people to go beyond cragging easily within one's ability.

I project bouldering routes. The most I've ever tried a roped route is maybe 10 attempts. Most of those 10 attempts were on different days when I was climbing other stuff nearby. Not really a goal route or something I'd call a project. More of a "I'll give it another shot" situation.

It really is not any sort of fear of failure that keeps me from projecting. I love trying stuff that shuts me down. But my favored flavor of getting shut down is trying to do too many routes or cover too much terrain in a day. I still run into failure all the time. It's just of a different sort. Combining 30 pitches with 30 miles of trail running is my kind of project.

a million

I am still taking swings at some.

The most trys at any one project..... I don't keep count, but when I cant raise my hands over my head.... I call it a day.

I agree pretty much with what evan h is saying....

Not sure how this hasn't been said yet but...

Over 9000!!!