outside corner pitch 3 belay bolts and memorial plaque.

I have climbed this route several times. It is a fun quick (2 pitches with a 70m) route to take old friends on. All of the times, that I have climbed it, but one there have been no bolts and plenty of places for gear at the top to make a safe anchor. I climbed it again on Friday with a friend that has not climbed in 20 years and we had a fun time on it. There was not another person on the route before, during, or after we finished. I was really glad when I pulled over the lip on the last pitch to see the bolts and plaque gone.
I feel that the 2 other anchors that are made of rope and webbing could be easily removed without any problem. My guess is that they were left as bail anchors in the first place. Once on the top, you don't need a bail anchor since you just walk off.

Sunny-D wrote: My guess is that they were left as bail anchors in the first place. Once on the top, you don't need a bail anchor since you just walk off.

Right, someone cut 40ft of their rope and wrapped 3 times around that rock to make the 3rd pitch belay station... or no... they didn't... try again... clearly you're retired/homeless and go during the week... stop up on Saturday or Sunday when every pitch has 2 parties on it...

Brent,
I would be happy to go up to the top and show you the multitude of anchor options. PM me and I'll meet you after work this week (yeah, I got a real job, and a degree too). I'm always happy to help others in the community! I'd also be happy to help you with your training, I also climb pretty hard too!

Brent Toughley wrote: Ah, an account age has something to do with an argument. Well there is a logical fallacy. Probably just as much of an argument as someone who lives in Sandy having any logic. A man who does half the job and comes to talk about being the coherent one. Who am I to judge your competence at being ability have a clear overall sense of ethics. Someone who idolizes "first ascentionists"... which are you talking about? Perhaps the ones who passed on further education to pursue rock climbing? Right, I listen to highschoolers all the time... While I understand the concept of clean and unclean, this is an absurdly trafficked route, having a conga line with every other pitch having "clean" anchors that "aren't" an eye sore is dumb. That was a way to move people so they could enjoy it. Sure if this wasn't literally 10ft off the road, with thousands of cars/hillbilly trucks/loud pipe motor cycles, and slings, webbing, and pieces of rope all over it... then obviously why would you bolt it... but this is basically an argument in defense of the hip belay... sure it "worked"... and the ATC also works in plenty of situations. Every have to dodge a falling rock while hip belaying and catching a fall? There is a reason safety in our sport is important and when that many people trying a route so low graded and accessible bolts make sense. Or are you someone who does blanket statements that you cherry pick? Do people climb anything the same way they did 50 years ago? Thanks for making a decision for the entire community. Finally Which boulder are you referring? Because the only acceptable one is about 20ft+ up and unless you have an insanely long cordelette you're not using a redundant system, I used the rope on that. Clearly you don't know how fast a quad is... maybe you're still hip belaying, wait you're not because you cherry pick your "ethics" Thanks for the safety tips Kellen.

At the beginning of this thread I specifically called out that this isn't going to turn into a pissing match. If need be I can start flagging posts of people who can't seem to understand this concept. As i said the evening that I climbed this route I had forgotten my knife to clean the tat from the first and second belays. Oops perhaps my absentmindedness was due to the fact that I had just finished up with a 13 hour shift at work and was trying to squeeze in a bit of family time with my wife and kids before casting off to restore the route. I had farore people in agreement with me to remove them than the handful of those that didnt. Also the boulder I refer to is about 6 feet away from the lip and as I also previously mentioned takes less time to sling and set up than bolts do. It also takes less gear. Oh by the way awesome that you bombed my route at the city when I'm pretty sure you haven't even climbed it. Way to be an adult about this. This kind of child like behavior is definitely constructive. Funny how you also just joined the site to spray your opinion, also what does living in sandy have to do with anything?

Don't bother arguing with stupid people bro.
I'm convinced that the only reason that he has a dog in this fight is because he placed the bolts.

We all know the rules and they are not that complicated!

Trent or Brent take your ball and go home, your done here.

mikewhite wrote: Don't bother arguing with stupid people bro. I'm convinced that the only reason that he has a dog in this fight is because he placed the bolts. We all know the rules and they are not that complicated! Trent or Brent take your ball and go home, your done here.

He is not the person who placed the bolts. That individual has class.

Whoa hold the fuck on. I did not remove the bolts or the plaque I only acted as a consultant .

But I agree he should choke on a cock and I have one and will volunteer my services for him to choke on said cock.

mikewhite wrote: Whoa hold the fuck on. I did not remove the bolts or the plaque I only acted as a consultant . But I agree he should choke on a cock and I have one and will volunteer my services for him to choke on said cock.

wait ! Blame me I'll take the credit,
I did it !
If they re-appear I'll fly my bicycle back, haul it up there and chain It there, ( it's a Huffy )
If you need plaques and gadgets to free climb in a clean climbing fashion ,
You belong in a sport park setting like Logan? Or American Forks where there is need for Artificial attachments

Edit, 530pm so 8 hours later,

Yeah, that was course ~ no chocking - no sword play! ( sword swallower )

That was keeping it adolescent, tongue-in-cheek, non-constructive for the sake of Hyperbole.

And "Justa Beater", - that's what I call my Huffy bicycle- that is ment as a big compliment,
I was giving a nod of approval to you, for your righteous effort to bring about civil discourse. Thanx,

I'm firmly for leaving the free and clean climb as it is:
a free clean moderate climb that provides a place to feel the actual learning curve in progress.
A climb where the confidence gained from a epic or from success, teaches and where
satisfaction of self contained. Leave no trace , clip no bolts adventure builds more confidence,

Hey now, come on guys let's not turn this into something inappropriate. Remember kids read these things, we don't want to send a message that this is how we solve problems, constructive criticism please and try to keep it clean.

speaking of memorial plaques, what's with the one on the South Ridge of Superior? Did the guy die on that route or just really like it?

Oh shit. What are we going to do about this?

cdec wrote:Oh shit. What are we going to do about this?

Call the slca clean up crew. Let them take on satanism.

I just read this thread. I am outraged at the disrespect given to Brian Smoot by some of the people posting here. You deserve a Wasatch slap across the face for this.

Troy Anderson

"The Writing On The Wall?! I hope that that Tag, Harps of Satan, is at American Forks in the area around the Timpanogos N P

Chossy grid bolted rock is where it starts, gaining acceptance,
Still no excuse!
chop the route make a statement against ego spraying jerk offs

Stevie Nacho wrote:I just read this thread. I am outraged at the disrespect given to Brian Smoot by some of the people posting here. You deserve a Wasatch slap across the face for this. Troy Anderson

yes, total ignorance, leading to disrespect . . . .
For me the sad thing is the evidence of the coming changes.
It looks like 30 years after stopping the Euro trend, it has been accepted
through or due to climber apathy. The majority of the climbers have zero travel experience.
Some show no interest in the history or why it is worth adhering to
-The American Revolution -Clean Climbing.
With time and travel you will come to value un-adulterated SELF-POLICED, as close to natural as can be, wilderness.
One trip to the Italian or French Alps will cure you bolt happy Cowboys.
Or Change you into chisel using, ( Ivan Green?) summit ruining with
Religious icon (like Cross es) memorial spitting wankers .

Stop thinking like it is yours to Fuk up, no need to paint on the wall .
Use marker stones at the base if you must.
Do not tolerate this creeping trend.
The majority of climbers with decades of experience, stood up against this. Yes there are pockets where drilling and hold making is a dirty secret. The skill level & strength of modern climbers proved that restraint from altering the rock was better for the whole community.
We were able to see what could happen with out care.
We took the initiative and did not let the grid bolting & chipping & ego stroking go un attacked,
for many it was as important to leave no trace, be entirely capable,
and carried bolts for emergency.
Only when all you could do was hang in slings and bang a hammer to get one 1/4 inch by 1/2 stud in, shove a wire on it and leave gear on the retreat,
but return in a few days to clean up and send......
Think about it

Timpanogos N P
Worth a visit, get out of the heat

Damn that's beautiful BS. I suspected all along you'd chosen the left.

Something I'd really like to point out to everyone commenting or reading this is that this post is getting a lot of traffic there are nearly 10,000 views, and nearly 150 comments. This could mean folks are watching, if so hopefully taking note that there are those out there among us that do take the clean climbing movement seriously. You want to bolt a new project or develop an area as an FA, I say more power to you! I'm not against bolts, sport climbing has its place and I regularly participate in it. But plaques, painted markers, chipping and retrobolting are practices that in my opinion do not live up the standard of ethics developed by so many that came before our time. Climbing is, always has and always will remain dangerous however, probably less dangerous than driving your car provided that you use the safety systems correctly and you don't become over ambitious. We don't need to bring mountains down to our level to climb them, we should rise to the mountian. That means you que up on an R rated project and send in good style, without neutering the risk, or you realize it's not for you and you back off. You don't go back later and add a bolt to the scary parts so that it meets your standards of risk tolerance, you simply look elsewhere to climb and maybe one day your tolerance will be ready to meet the objective or maybe it never will.

Michael Schneider wrote:"The Writing On The Wall?! I hope that that Tag, Harps of Satan, is at American Forks in the area around the Timpanogos N P Chossy grid bolted rock is where it starts, gaining acceptance, Still no excuse! chop the route make a statement against ego spraying jerk offs yes, total ignorance, leading to disrespect . . . .

Nope not American fork. So much spray from someone who clearly doesn't have a clue.
You put it up you get to drill where you want and tag it how you want. If you weren't there on the FA than you don't get to alter the climb, unless you ask those that had the vision and put in the work. It's that simple.

cdec wrote:...and tag it how you want.

A completely dick move regardless of where it is. And if that's a local norm, then the locals are cracker dicks as well.

^^^^
Congrats you just called some of the Wests most notable, best and prolific First Acesionists "cracker dicks".
I typed to quickly. Tagging or placing plaques should probably be skipped altogether.

In reply to cdec.
What was the point of posting the pic?
I gather you are a Wasatch local but I can't tell if you have a problem or not with it. I don't think that you do, so why bring it up? It's such a touchy subject that posting it was just asking for trouble.

The last couple of postings could be from tweekers living in Oklahoma or the Head of the Alpine Club for all I know. What I do know is, posting the pic was not a good idea and for you to now go on the defensive about it makes me chuckle.

For the record, I do not care one way or another.