Did you choose climbing over a better career?

Thanks for all of the replies and insights. This is all extremely helpful for establishing perspective.

Just a disclaimer, I don't have any desire to live a dirtbag lifestyle; I really do want to work and have a career, but simply have sufficient time to climb sometimes on weeknights (and not be so stressed out that it takes away from enjoying it) and take weekend trips often. I would like to take 3-6 months off sometime in the next 3 years (between jobs, perhaps) to climb and road trip to national parks but I do not seek to dirt bag for an extended period of time (just in case anyone was confused about my level of commitment to climbing - I don't need to be climbing all day every day, just not be required to work very long hours all week and report for work on weekends)

A vast majority of people will want to have kids at some point. In a couple of years you can and probably will go from "I"ll definitely never have kids" to "I can't imagine life without trying to have them."

Once you have them, you can pretty much throw any penny-pinching budget out the window.

To say: "You can have your cake and eat it too! Just don't have kids" is ( for a huge percentage of the population who will eventually have kids ) wishful thinking.

kevin trieu wrote: I live down the street from you in San Juan Capistrano. You live in THE SUBURBIA of America. Don't get disillusioned with this easy life. ........ And lastly let me know if you want to head out to climb.

Hey, neighbor! I'm originally from here and moved back home for this job, so I know it well. It's funny you say "easy" life when I am honestly miserable in suburbia. My college town was "easier" because I was significantly happier being closer to climbing/mountains/etc, while still working very hard on my education. I find this suburbia lifestyle to be very draining; the culture here is mostly centered around money and materialism, and I find culture fit to be extremely important when finding a location for a job. I truly want to relocate as soon as I can. I moved back home to save money so that was the enticing factor.

I'd also love to climb! I'll be at Holcomb Valley this weekend, what crags do you frequent?

Kyle sharp wrote:I became an RN at 36 and work in a busy ER which makes the three days/week that I work go by quickly. The four days off are gravy because I always feel that I earn it. The work is demanding and stressful, but very rewarding. It pays well, and there is a multitude of career paths to chose from. You can work from home or an a cruise ship, the possibilities are numerous. With that said, Nursing isn't for everyone and the training isn't as easy as some people might think. Patients deserve great nurses, not just people who want a good job. Anyhow, lots of time for climbing and the ability to afford it:)

climbing friend,

nursing seems fantastich, more than most "career" for climbing rocks, except for the nonstop engaging in constant, how you say, "butt stuff." How do you accept this?

your average middle class lifestyle in your country is, yesssss, exploding volcano of waste. cut your spending and save massive stacks of money piling them high, for invest in vanguard stock index funds, and live by the interest, or at least for you to be "working" less as a desk jockey and climbing your passionate rocks.

reality for most peoples is "working" sucks compare to doing whatever you want at all times. if you find a job you enjoy even some of time, such as my smashing fishheads and "collecting the oil" for sales, then you may be "winning."

JCM wrote:Great comment from Will S. This is huge. Keeping your expenses down and your savings rate up will give you much more freedom to choose the lifestyle and career path you want. Debt and expensive tastes are a ball and chain. For inspiration and advice on this front, see mrmoneymustache.com. Read everything written there.

I'd also like to add another link for folks to go further downt he rabbit hole, especially if you feel you can reduce everything *but* your basic expenses at earlyretirementextreme.com/.

kzurriola wrote: This is all extremely helpful for establishing perspective... I really do want to work and have a career, but simply have sufficient time to climb sometimes on weeknights (and not be so stressed out that it takes away from enjoying it) and take weekend trips often...I don't need to be climbing all day every day, just not be required to work very long hours all week and report for work on weekends)

Your expectations are entirely reasonable, and it should be possible to meet them. If having free time is important to you, there is no reason that you should not be able to find a good, professional job that allows this. Just make it a priority. If your employer expects you to work 60+ hours a week and come in on weekends, start looking for a new job now. You shouldn't have to put up with that.

If sticking to a 40-hour workweek is important to you: government, government, government.

JCM wrote: This. Working for the government is nice. Actual 40 hour weeks, adequate amounts of vacation time. It is a compromise, though, and like any compromise you may not be totally satisfied on either front. Sometimes I wish I had gone for a more lucrative career, others times I wish I was living in a van. But most of the time, it is a good compromise. Living somewhere with really easy access to climbing helps a massive amount. Even the difference between a 10 minute drive to climbing and a 40 minute drive to climbing will affect how much you get out, and how much stress it imparts on your life to do so. The 9-5'er lifestyle can still allow lots of climbing if you live in the right location (SLC, Boulder, Chattanooga, etc.). Trying to be a climber while 9-5ing in the Bay Area or Boston is a lot more stressful. Trying to do so in Houston is pretty unworkable. Emphasizing efficient training is also key. Those 9-5ers who are really successful climbers all tend to be very organized and efficient with their training. Having two weekend days to climb, plus two weekday evenings to train each week can actually be very conducive to improving as a climber- in some ways better than just being a dirtbag and climbing al the time. And you have to be motivated.

All of this is true. I don't really dig my job, but it pays fairly well and I work 40 hours a week, very rarely do I have to pull extra hours. Plus, my boss is chill and is pretty good about being flexible on hours if I need to come in a little late or leave a little early. I live in the Provo, UT area so I can easily be at the crag trailhead 15 min. after leaving work. This is great for both rock and ice climbing. Decent amounts of vacation for extended weekend trips (Moab) or week-long trips to the backcountry, Yosemite, etc.

I'd like to know how you can graduate from college and construct the title to this thread like you did? :)

Edit: You've corrected the title. A+

JCM wrote: Your expectations are entirely reasonable, and it should be possible to meet them. If having free time is important to you, there is no reason that you should not be able to find a good, professional job that allows this. Just make it a priority. If your employer expects you to work 60+ hours a week and come in on weekends, start looking for a new job now. You shouldn't have to put up with that. If sticking to a 40-hour workweek is important to you: government, government, government.

I appreciate the reassurance that my desires are reasonable! Thanks!

FrankPS wrote:I'd like to know how you can graduate from college and construct the title to this thread like you did? :)

Haha oops! I've been working too late ;)

Michael Schneider wrote: Do you ever wonder what that short fat guy in his 50s did before serving coffee? Yeah, I didn't think so, was that half-cafe & soy you wanted?, . . .Next #seeya@Strbks

Have you been stalking me?

kzurriola wrote: I appreciate the reassurance that my desires are reasonable! Thanks!

+1 - what you want is out there. There's no reason you can't find a decent paying position in your field, and have a balance personal life. Being flexible will make it much easier to find. The more limits you place, the harder it will be.

Be willing to move anywhere (place a limit by being with-in convenient driving distance to a local crags, but there are plenty of places to look). For instance, I live an hour from my local crag, and it's no big deal to get out on the weekend. I haven't tried to get out on a weekday yet, but with long summer day's I think it's reasonable. I have friends who live a little further away and they stress about the drive sometimes.

Be willing to fund your relocation. Not every company will be willing to relocate you, vs hire local talent. Usually this is an HR policy whether they do or not, and will often be in the job posting.

It sounds like your skill set is pretty universal. I'd say don't limit the industry you want to work for. You can always change jobs later, and may find a better opportunity locally once you're established.

My 2-cents...
1) Read 4-Hour Work Week by Tim Ferris
2) Look into being a freelancer on Upwork.com with your graphic design skills
3) You don't always have to quit your job to get better hours. Become indispensable and negotiate a 40 hour work week. When you hit 8 hours, go home. It may earn you more respect than pushing 10 - 12 hour days. You won't know until you try.

I think most people ask the same question you are at some point, so thanks for posting!

I'm in a similar spot. 23 years old, making $55k at an office job with good opportunities for advancement, living in a medium sized town with good local access to climbing and other outdoor recreation, which is great. I'm not a good rock climber though... I tend to focus on moderate alpine routes. As I get deeper and deeper into climbing, I continually wish I had more flexibility with when I come and go, and especially with time off. Alpine climbing in the Northwest is just as dependent on the weather as the stereotype makes it seem, and often times my trips are planned last minute. I've had to cancel 4 trips in the last 6 weeks due to poor weather, which is frustrating.

One career that I have looked into is being a flight attendant. Obviously the travel benefits are incredible and the schedule is somewhat flexible, according to my flight attendant friend. Anybody have experience with this, or any general advice for a young professional with a bad climbing habit?

I feel compelled to share my experience a bit. Let me pre-empt this by saying anything I say that might sound judgmental is for me only...I don't condemn or condone anyone else's life choices. This is the type of thread I would start so I thought I'd share.

I'm 41. I have a reasonably demanding career in IT - about a 40-50 hour work week. I got married when I was 30 and we had our first child when I was 35. I graduated from college when I was 23 with a liberal arts degree and went back to school at 25 for some IT education. I've been in my field for about 15 years and at the same company for 10 with several promotions while being here. I am not certain I want to go any "higher" as I really don't need any more money and don't really want more responsibility or hours.

I did not get in to backpacking, hiking, and climbing until I was about 35. I was always sort of into it but when I was about 35 I got in shape and lost a lot of weight and some doors opened up. By that time I already had kids and a career and what not. I often reflect had I been in a different spot or had different interests at the time how would it have driven my decision making differently? Who knows - I am where I am.

That being said I commend you for considering what you are considering at this point. I think a life centered on climbing or any interest of that type unless you can make a living of some kind at it might get old after a while unless you are pretty unique. I know people that live in vans, nomadic lifestyle and its awesome...for a while. In most cases it seems to eventually get old. Maybe not. I also know that being poor stinks. I don't mean not making $200K a year. I mean having to choose between buying soap and a slice of pizza. My older brother is a musician and lived that life for a while. He's a college grad...it was hard. He is doing well now. It was a long road. So I am not money motivated per say, but its nice to not have to scrimp every penny.

If I have any regret, and this thread has alluded to it, it is living close to what you are in to. That helps a lot to be closer to the cake and eat it too scenario. I live 1h 30m from the closest crag or any "real" hiking. 2-3 from anything more significant and probably 5 from where I really like to go. If I lived close to these things it becomes a game changer, esp.

I live close to water but unfortunately I am not too into paddling, surfing, or fishing. We live close to family and have much support. I have no complaints. But to your original question, if I could go back in time I may have pushed harder to move to an area close to my interests when my wife and I married.

I'm sorry if this is way long. Your thread hit a chord with me. Whatever you decide be grateful you have the insight to at least consider it at this point. And who knows, in 5 years you might not want to climb anymore...you might get into something else. Its certainly possible.

Do what you think will create the life you're looking for despite what others advise. Do not spend money on things you don't need. Do start saving for retirement tomorrow.

Those three things should get you where you wanna be.

kzurriola wrote: Hey, neighbor! I'm originally from here and moved back home for this job, so I know it well. It's funny you say "easy" life when I am honestly miserable in suburbia. My college town was "easier" because I was significantly happier being closer to climbing/mountains/etc, while still working very hard on my education. I find this suburbia lifestyle to be very draining; the culture here is mostly centered around money and materialism, and I find culture fit to be extremely important when finding a location for a job. I truly want to relocate as soon as I can. I moved back home to save money so that was the enticing factor. I'd also love to climb! I'll be at Holcomb Valley this weekend, what crags do you frequent?

I completely understand the culture of suburbia lifestyle. You just have to ignore the bad and enjoy the good.

Unfortunately, you are stuck during the weekdays. Fortunately you have 5 climbing gyms within short distance including 2 Hangar 18, Sender One, Rockcreation and Aesthetic. There's good trail running in Laguna Coast Wilderness Park and all along the Ortega Highway. Don't forget you have access to arguably the most beautiful coast and beaches anywhere.

On the weekends the possibilities are limitless. You have access to world class climbing within two hours in Joshua Tree and Tahquitz. Then there's countless other good climbing destinations in the 1-2 driving range including NJC, Holcomb Valley, Woodson, Stoney Point, Malibu Creek to name a few. There also a tremendous amount of hiking within this driving range in the San Gabriels, San Bernadino and San Jacinto.

From the 4-7 hour driving range you have access to legendary places like The Sierra Eastside and the High Sierra, The Needles and Yosemite. Having been to some of the greatest mountain ranges in the world, I can tell you that the Sierra Nevada is a treasure and take second seat to none. I might be biased since this is my "home range."

I guess it depends on your definition of being closer but living in the OC, you aren't that far away from climbing and the mountains. And not just any climbing or any mountains, some of the best in the world.

Joshua Tree is my home crag. I escape to the Sierra in the summer months. I've recently frequent Tahquitz. Let me know if you are up for Flower of High Rank.

Tim Lutz wrote: Most of our friends don't and aren't having kids. and statistically, at least in the US, they are happier: huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/… the people we know with kids have no time money or motivation to try hard at climbing. it is possible to crush and have kids, but it takes a lot of discipline (ex: Anderson Bros program)

Good thing a few surveys and interviews have settled this simple question once and for all, and "statistically", no less.

kennoyce wrote: Yes and no, I chose a career that uses my degree, but I did choose to work somewhere that I can get a lot of time off and am never required to work more than 40 hours a week. I could certainly make more money working somewhere else, but the time off and limited work hours are worth the somewhat lower salary to me. Personally, I find this to be a great compromise, still working a professional career but still allowing a decent amount of time for climbing.

And your job is???

dylan grabowski wrote: I'd also like to add another link for folks to go further downt he rabbit hole, especially if you feel you can reduce everything *but* your basic expenses at earlyretirementextreme.com/.

Great site.

Why not dirtbag for a few years, and then earn some $$$?

Variety is the spice of life, after all.