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Is Neptune Mountaineering going out of business?

Stagg54 Taggart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2006 · Points: 10
Ray Pinpillage wrote: She made the case Neptune is dishonest in public, I'd like her to substantiate her claim.
If they had an agreement to pay and didn't pay, does it matter what the amount was or what the exact terms were?
Mason Roberts · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 197
Stagg54 wrote: If they had an agreement to pay and didn't pay, does it matter what the amount was or what the exact terms were?
It does if she didn't understand the terms and is now venting in public, misplacing the blame.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but it's always good to give context if you're going to slam someone.
bearded sam · · Crested Butte, CO · Joined Apr 2011 · Points: 145

In defense of Misty, Backwoods has had trouble paying their bills for many, many years.....

Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180
Stagg54 wrote: If they had an agreement to pay and didn't pay, does it matter what the amount was or what the exact terms were?
I didn't ask for the amount owed. I asked for credit extended and the terms of the credit.
JDMCO · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2015 · Points: 0

Place used to be good. But the place is absolutely EMPTY. not even worth stopping there any more. Went in looking for some pro and biners and they barely had anything in stock, was also looking at shoes and they have very few sizes in stock.

Sad, used to be a cool place to check stuff out.

BigNobody · · all over, mostly Utah · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 10
Ray Pinpillage wrote: I didn't ask for the amount owed. I asked for credit extended and the terms of the credit.
I'll go out on a limb here for you Ray. Misty sends, lets say, 50 books. She then expects Neptune to pay her for the f-in books they sell.....ie credit is in the books, pay me when you sell them.
jason.cre · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 10
Mason Roberts wrote: It does if she didn't understand the terms and is now venting in public, misplacing the blame. I don't have a dog in this fight, but it's always good to give context if you're going to slam someone.
What more context do you need? She shipped her books to Neptune, like she does to other stores, and they havent paid her for all the books they sold.
The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air · · Portland, OR · Joined Sep 2013 · Points: 70

Sounds like they have cash flow issues.

Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180
misty murphy wrote: Ray, I am not sure why it matters because you either believe me or not. But we had a written agreement of net 30 for one order of 6 books at wholesale on 3/7/16, and another order on 3/31/16/ same terms. Of course I would love to still be paid and I will take back what I said if they can make good on their promise. But as of now they are ignoring my emails and making money off of my work. Hope this helps you in some way. Misty
That sucks and I'm sorry. Have you considered legal action? You have recourse in small claims court. From all reports in this thread it sounds like Neptune is on it's way out; if you're interested in taking legal action you should consider it sooner rather than later. Fortunately the dollar amount you are out is relatively low (that certainly doesn't make nonpayment ok). It's sad but the days of handshake deals are gone.

Here is Neptune's FB page. Maybe the members here would like to publicly request that they pay their debts? facebook.com/NeptuneMountai…
Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180
BigNobody wrote: I'll go out on a limb here for you Ray. Misty sends, lets say, 50 books. She then expects Neptune to pay her for the f-in books they sell.....ie credit is in the books, pay me when you sell them.
See, this is why I asked. Her deal is specifically not what you wrote. In fact, she had a written agreement for Net 30 from invoice. That is significantly different than "when merchandise is sold".
Jim T · · Colorado · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 469

They're 7 weeks late on a $150 bill and being publicly called out?

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520

I need to go check out the store soon to see this for myself. Damn.

Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180
Jim Turner wrote:They're 7 weeks late on a $150 bill and being publicly called out?
Neptune might run it's vendors in the 60 day category by practice...or...it's got cashflow issues and is stretching out the least critical vendors first (or all of the vendors). Where there is smoke, there is usually fire.
coppolillo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 70

Always had a good experience at Neptune and I send dozens of clients there every year--they all seem to get good service and have nothing but good things to say.

RC

misty murphy · · St.George, UT · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 56
Jim Turner wrote:They're 7 weeks late on a $150 bill and being publicly called out?
I really hate this shit. I am just trying to be honest and trying to let others in the know. But dude, can you not do simple math? It is over 11 weeks out.
And where the hell did you get $150? Much more then that! They are blatantly not responding. I mean whatever. Go climbing. I wish I had been paid, it's now like I gave 12 books out for FREE. My friends even paid me full price because they knew what went into it.

Thanks for my anonymous online friends support. I appreciate it and hope you come visit this beautiful area someday.

Misty

p.s. Some of the money made from our book has financed rebolting projects in the area.
nomadwolf360 Vardamis · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 35

Hey all,

Looks like this thread has taken a turn and it's time to speak up. This is Dan Vardamis again, our Sales Manager.

So first of all - Misty. I'd like to point out that the folks working here - the floor warriors who live and breath this stuff and save their money so they can go on climbing and skiing trips and live out of their vans and share rooms with 8 roommates - try to give folks out there the best damned service around. So to blame any issues with payment and to have the climbing community take it out on a bunch of employees making not-so-much-money an hour is a bit harsh. If I seem defensive, it's because I am. I hired most of them and they are all stand-up individuals who are here to make your experience in the outdoors better. If they didn't, they wouldn't be working here. I don't think it's fair to unleash the wolves on them, since they have nothing to do with it.

I'm also going to call the claim of "Neptude" out here a little bit. Yes, it's true, "Neptude"did exist in a fairly rampant stage back in 2005 or so. Before I was a manager at this place, I was a customer, dating back to 1991. I remember sitting on the Crazy Creeks in the 90's as an 18 year old kid, in my J-Rat fleece that I bought from Neptune, watching a show from Goran Kropp or a Lowe brother and feeling like I'd arrived. I also went through the period of time where it was tough to be a customer, where you sometimes felt like you were being sized up. And I remember my first day working here, how intimidating it was, how I was working the climbing counter and an old customer came up to me and said, "is this your first day here?" - and when I sheepishly answered "yes" - he said, "I can fucking tell."

There is a thread on Teton Gravity called "Sarcastic Remarks Can Get You Banned From Neptune." Right or wrong, that thread was probably the worst of it. But here is the thing - that thread is now a decade old. One of my main goals when I was hired as Sales Manager was to hire a more friendly staff. Still knowledgeable as all heck, but with a grace and attitude that we want to help people. And I think we've done a good job. We treat our staff with the utmost respect and we expect them to do the same to you. I honestly have to ask folks if they really still feel Neptude, and if so when and in what way? From what I hear, 99% of folks say they are psyched, that our staff are friendly and even sometimes over-the-top helpful. So I don't know - if that's not true and I'm living in La-La land, call me at 303-499-8866 and ask for Dan Vardamis. I'd love to know exactly what it is that we did wrong.

Regarding Sales Goals and Commission - that's just flat-out inaccurate. We don't do it. We DID experiment with it about two years ago and came to the rapid decision that Commission and selling climbing gear and ski mountaineering gear don't jive. Would it better to have myself - a skier who gets out everyday but climbs minimally - or Dan Hare help somebody in the climbing world? Of course, Dan Hare, and the opposite is true in ski land. As such, we don't do commission, have not for about two years, and are not going back.

So - onto the meat of the topic - bills and paying vendors and why our product is low RIGHT NOW. I'm not going to bullshit folks - it's been a rough six months. Actually, it was a splendid winter for our shop, and an awesome summer before that. Climbing was cranking, ski mountaineering was all the rage and we had our busiest and best year in a long time.

As folks know, we are part of Backwoods. Backwoods is midwest company that bought the company from Gary Neptune back in 2013. Before we go into the cliche about some corporate takeover and how they are Texas, etc., let me first tell you that this is a good, small, family run operation. They started in 1973, just like us, and when Neptune went on sale Jen Mull, the CEO decided to buy it. You better believe we were all nervous and leery, but she's proven herself to me, to our employees and to our customers to have the legacy and nature of the shop in the forefront of her decision making process. Instead of gutting the museum, she actually expanded it. Instead of letting our ski shop soldier on with antiquated machines and poor safety standards, she invested heavily and turned it into one of the best and most modern shops in the land. And absolutely key - our climbing and ski buyer is exactly the same person who bought for us pre-Backwoods. Those two departments - basically our lifeblood - are unchanged. We still mostly rely on full-time staffers who live and breath this stuff. You can't provide exceptional service without exceptional knowledge.

Back to Backwoods. In retail you tend to buy a lot of product for the winter season. It's your bread-and-butter season. Well, truth is, it was a disaster in pretty much every Backwoods market other than Boulder. When it's 78° in Omaha on November 21st, December 21st AND January 21st it's pretty darned hard to sell fleece jackets. Basically, they got destroyed by the weather, by the warmth, by the holiday season and winter that never really happened. We're paying the price for that now. But it's sort of like when you're on a tough route with a team, and things go sour. You stick together and help each other out. That's what mountaineers do, and that's what we're going to do.

You guys might have seen the Outlet Sale - that's what that was - selling that winter product to make some money to pay hardworking folks like Misty. It's a slow process, and it's a bit of a triage. Last week we got B.D. in the shop. This week it's Sportiva and next week it'll be more and more.

I'm not going to whine, but I will say it's a tough industry to be in. Sports Authority went under this past year. So did EMS. There is a lot of competition out there. Backcountry.com, REI, Steep and Cheap, you name it. Our customers absolutely rock. Every single one of them. But it's tough to give somebody an hour of your time, sharing years and years of knowledge, and have them buy that product on-line. That kills us.

A little secret about an outdoor retail store. If we sell an item at full-pop, zero discount, after we pay employees, pay the rent, pay the utilities, etc...we might make 1% profit. It ain't much, and there is not much room for issues to arise. So when places on the web deeply discount prices because they buy volume, or people abuse pro-deals, or any myriad of things happen - like the warmest winter in the modern history of the planet - it hurts.

I encourage folks to support local shops. Of course they are our rival, but Bent Gate rocks. They push us and we push them. Go there, that's a good shop. But please, come to Neptune Mountaineering too. Look, we need you, our loyal customers now more than ever. If you like coming into a small shop - and yes Backwoods is tiny compared to REI or backcountry.com - than please come to the store and support us. Don't do it because I'm asking you...make us earn your trust. Let us share our knowledge with you. Let us help make your next trip the best one possible. I'm serious - come in and test us.

There is a lot of passion here. We're fired up as hell to get new product. We're stoked to get through this rough bump in the road and make the store the best out there again. Honestly, Misty, I don't know your situation but I promise you 100% we'll dig into it first thing tomorrow.

Anyway, that's all I've got. I realize news forums are breeding grounds for cynicism and I'm sure there will be a fair bit of it from this response. Not too much we can do about that. All I can say is give us a shot, a real shot, and if there are any issues at all my line is open anytime - 303-499-8866 or dvardamis@neptunemountaineering.com.

Beyond that, support your local mountaineering, climbing and ski shop no matter where it is. It's been a pleasure getting folks in Boulder and the surrounding area set up for adventure for the past 43 years. We look forward to doing it for at least 43 years more. We've had bumps in the road in those 43 years, and I'm sure we'll have some others in the next 43 years, but our goal and passion - the mountains and getting people in them with the best possible knowledge and gear - isn't going anywhere.

Thanks all and have a great night.

Dan V

Jon H · · PC, UT · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 118

Absolute Class A response from Dan. Retail is hard. And I'm thankful that there's still an incredible local resource where I can go and handle gear before purchasing.

I'm a NOTORIOUS deal hunter yet I still try to make it a point to spend money where I can at Neptune. I've probably spent hundreds of dollars there over the past year between purchases and boot fitting services. And the service has always been excellent, friendly, attentive, and highly skilled. I worked outdoor retail for 4 years and would have been happy to have any of Neptune's current employees as my coworkers back in the day.

They definitely need to get their Accounts Payable in order, but all things considered, Neptune is among the best of the best. I typically buy my gear used here on MP, but if I'm buying something new, there's a pretty good chance I'm getting it from Neptune.

tim · · Boulder, CO · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 507

I went in a week ago to buy some things, didn't have anything in stock. A warm winter in Omaha means you have one size of a fairly popular climbing shoe? I guess I just don't understand retail. Btw, despite the weather in Nebraska bent gate has plenty of product.

Michael Spiesbach · · Boulder, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 105

I've only been into Neptune one time.. ( I forgot my shoes at home when I was in boulder for a day and just wanted to get some pitches in that day.. Anyway I loved that place.. The staff was awesome.. gave me tons of recommendations about where to go and where super friendly.. Of course there prices are a bit more expensive than online retailers.. However you get the benefit of A) having the stuff immediately and B) getting to see it and touch it. I had a blast just walking around for a half hour or so.. I'm trying to move to boulder shortly so I hope you guys pull through. I plan on becoming a very loyal customer!

Morgan Patterson · · NH · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,945
misty murphy wrote: Ray, I am not sure why it matters because you either believe me or not. But we had a written agreement of net 30 for one order of 6 books at wholesale on 3/7/16, and another order on 3/31/16/ same terms. Of course I would love to still be paid and I will take back what I said if they can make good on their promise. But as of now they are ignoring my emails and making money off of my work. Hope this helps you in some way. Misty
Sounds like a small claims court case... If they ignore that you automatically win.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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