Gym Rating Soft?

Climbed up to 10d at Earthtreks, I've led a few outdoor 9s in CCC, followed Ruper (8+) in Eldo and I thought it was really tough. I think Earthtreks is several grades soft.

Scott McMahon wrote: You climb considerably harder than I do, but yeah they are different animals. Many gym only climbers go outside and can barely scratch up the wall. The gym is a batting cage and outside is the game.

I get that, but I would not call myself an inexperienced climber. I've been climbing outside for over a decade. I am pretty new to granite, so maybe that is it, but I don't think so.

I can objectively say that the holds and movement outside are considerably harder than the gym's. This isn't a route finding, footwork, or lead-head issue. I know I have room to improve, we all do, but that's not it in this case. It has been in some, but the routes I am thinking of I have done multiple times and haven't had issues with the exposure.

More likely are the other points brought up - maybe I have been climbing on old school routes, gyms purposefully grade softly, or those voting on grade in gyms just haven't been outside much (more to your point).

Dunning Kruger effect, you are attributing your shortcomings on the wrong thing because your shortcomings are so great that you can't evaluate them accurately.

I basically climb 12a. If I take a month or two off and try one route outdoors, I can still usually climb that grade. I've tested this repeatedly since returning to school. If I go to a gym, mid 11 is my max and I can do it about twice. It takes about 3 weeks of regular sessions to get up to my outdoor "off the couch" grade.

So in physical terms, how do you explain that I can climb your magic grade outside when out of shape if it's not a technique thing?

Its not the ratings, you are soft

Plastic, plywood, and florescent lights v.s. rock, dirt, and sunlight.

Gym sessions are "training"; climbing outdoors is, well, rock climbing.

It is difficult to replicate real climbing indoors.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote:Dunning Kruger effect, you are attributing your shortcomings on the wrong thing because your shortcomings are so great that you can't evaluate them accurately. I basically climb 12a. If I take a month or two off and try one route outdoors, I can still usually climb that grade. I've tested this repeatedly since returning to school. If I go to a gym, mid 11 is my max and I can do it about twice. It takes about 3 weeks of regular sessions to get up to my outdoor "off the couch" grade. So in physical terms, how do you explain that I can climb your magic grade outside when out of shape if it's not a technique thing?

Your short coming is reading my comment thoroughly and jumping to personal jabs. Glad you're in school - maybe work on your reading comprehension.

I've done these routes multiple times. I'm not talking about a first time pitch. The holds and moves match to a different grade in the gym. Simple as that. It seems that others experience the same thing.

Maybe you're going to a gym that rates harder than outside, or maybe you're getting on soft grades outside. Perhaps the 12 in the gym is overhung, and you're climbs outside are not - who knows. I didn't post to explain your poor performance in the gym, but to hear others experiences.

OMG...you mean climbing outdoors is different than climbing indoors!! What this revolutionary

Vinzanto wrote:Plastic, plywood, and florescent lights v.s. rock, dirt, and sunlight. Gym sessions are "training"; climbing outdoors is, well, rock climbing. It is difficult to replicate real climbing indoors.

True - that seems in line with what others are saying about appreciating a easy/med/hard grade indoors. Maybe it's just apples and oranges.

They're both the same. I led a 5.5 at the gym today and a 5.5 outside this weekend... I didn't notice a difference :)

Mason Roberts wrote: Your short coming is reading my comment thoroughly and jumping to personal jabs. Glad you're in school - maybe work on your reading comprehension. I've done these routes multiple times. I'm not talking about a first time pitch. The holds and moves match to a different grade in the gym. Simple as that. It seems that others experience the same thing. Maybe you're going to a gym that rates harder than outside, or maybe you're getting on soft grades outside. Perhaps the 12 in the gym is overhung, and you're climbs outside are not - who knows. I didn't post to explain your poor performance in the gym, but to hear others experiences.

Look at my post history, you'll notice that I'm rarely polite and even more rarely wrong.

I'm not jabbing at you, you are taking offense because my reply doesn't fit your preconceived answer.

The gyms I'm talking about are the same ones you're going to if you actually live in Boulder as your profile states.

I'm telling you, based on experience, that your poor performance is due to a technical deficiency.

You can believe me and takes steps to overcome it, or you can arrogantly dismiss me and languish in weakmo land.

Mason Roberts wrote: Your short coming is reading my comment thoroughly and jumping to personal jabs. Glad you're in school - maybe work on your reading comprehension. I've done these routes multiple times. I'm not talking about a first time pitch. The holds and moves match to a different grade in the gym. Simple as that. It seems that others experience the same thing. Maybe you're going to a gym that rates harder than outside, or maybe you're getting on soft grades outside. Perhaps the 12 in the gym is overhung, and you're climbs outside are not - who knows. I didn't post to explain your poor performance in the gym, but to hear others experiences.

I sent Lucid Dreaming 12d, Ten Digit Dialing 12c and was one-hanging Nevermore 13a during a time when I was climbing 12a/b at Movement and BRC.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote: I'm telling you, based on experience, that your poor performance is due to a technical deficiency. You can believe me and takes steps to overcome it, or you can arrogantly dismiss me and languish in weakmo land.

Spot on as usual.

Lucid Dreaming 12d. Is like 11c. Come on man you clearly are overestimating your
Technique. Just train harder like the rest of us. You will get better with time(hopefully)

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote: Look at my post history, you'll notice that I'm rarely polite and even more rarely wrong. I'm not jabbing at you, you are taking offense because my reply doesn't fit your preconceived answer. The gyms I'm talking about are the same ones you're going to if you actually live in Boulder as your profile states. I'm telling you, based on experience, that your poor performance is due to a technical deficiency. You can believe me and takes steps to overcome it, or you can arrogantly dismiss me and languish in weakmo land.

I have no doubt that finding climbs hard is caused by a technical deficiency. You might have well said the sky is blue. Why do you feel a 14 is hard? A technical deficiency.

You're answering a question I didn't ask. What I am saying is I have been on climbs that I would compare due to movement and holds to higher rated climbs in the gym and asking if this is a common occurrence.

Along the same lines, you would probably be more effective in spreading your wisdom if you were more tactful. I do get what you're trying to say, I think. That if you improve the skills needed for the types of climbs then they'll be easier. That's pretty common sense.

Yerrr gonnnna die

Bouldering grades in our gym are very soft on the low end. Gotta keep the paying n00bs happy.

I think v3 is about 10c on the [sad] 25' walls.

Either way, its uninspiring.

I climb about 3-4 grades harder outside than in they gym... I suck at plastic

Mason Roberts wrote: I can objectively say that the holds and movement outside are considerably harder than the gym's. This isn't a route finding, footwork, or lead-head issue. I know I have room to improve, we all do, but that's not it in this case.

No, you probably can't. Did you go out and measure the coefficient of friction for each hold, distance between them, mean angle of the climb, angle between holds, and angle of each hold? Not to mention temperature of the day compared to a relatively controlled gym.

To throw a wrench in your whole plan, I routinely found 12a's at Movement that had moves I'd consider hard and needed multiple attempts to complete, but did all the moves first-go on a 12c in Tennesee (and again on another one for good measure!) and with some regularity (when I'm climbing outside), send 12a's on my second try.

Nothing's as objective as you think it is, and it doesn't matter as much as you think it does anyway. Someone who posted "I rated this 10a because I thought it was easier than most 5.9+'s in the area" had the "issue" pinned pretty accurately.

You can complain about the grades in Boulder Canyon, but I'd advise you to go to the Northeast and get on a couple routes there first. Or the Gunks. Go have fun in the Gunks.

The thing that is most familiar will seem the easiest.

My first time on plastic came after climbing 20+ years outside and the plastic routes seemed a lot harder. Harder because they weren't familiar. Alas, now both indoors and out are equally unfamiliar...

Mason Roberts wrote: Why do you feel a 14 is hard? A technical deficiency.

I find 5.14 hard because they are just physically hard. I don't have a wealth of experience on 5.14s but at least I have some. What exactly are you basing your opinion on?

Gym climbing tend to be more physical than outdoor climbing. The fact you can do movement 12s, even if some are soft, but falls off Bocan (which by in large has soft grades, except the older routes, which are on par w/ Eldo rating) 5.11a is clear indication that you aren't technically proficient at granite, a style not easiest reproducible on plastic. One can typically make up physical deficiency with technical proficiency on more vertical rock up to a certain grade as HAFE as noted. Beyond 12+/13- or so, harder routes just tend to be physically harder.