Alpine ice questions

In the not so distant future I am thinking of climbing the Kautz route on Rainier that has some alpine ice (AI2-3) as the technical crux of the route. Looking at pictures of the route it appears to be highly featured compared to waterfall ice with ice penitents and/or lots of sun cupping.

For leading a similar pitch of waterfall ice (WI2-3) I typically bring a set of sport draws, with a few alpine draws for wandering placements, but based on the photos I am thinking that maybe all alpine draws would be preferable?

Also more generally, looking at videos of people climbing alpine ice it looks like it doesn't tend to dinner plate like waterfall ice, and just seems more uniform and consistent, is this indeed the case?

Shepido wrote:I typically bring a set of sport draws, with a few alpine draws for wandering placements, but based on the photos I am thinking that maybe all alpine draws would be preferable?

It really comes down to how much a route may wander. If you are uncertain bring alpine draws. They do not add weight and minimal bulk compared to sport draws, but are much more flexible in use allowing to leader to extend as needed so the rope runs smoothly when thing do wander.

Shepido wrote: Also more generally, looking at videos of people climbing alpine ice it looks like it doesn't tend to dinner plate like waterfall ice, and just seems more uniform and consistent, is this indeed the case?

No, what is happening is on low angle areas you loses the consistency of pure ice. Snow, dust and other debris builds up with the ice making icy mix that is more pliable, that means ice loses its crystalline structure that could dinner plate and becomes more like a hard packed snow cone.

TBH AI(2-3) may be too steep of a grade for this route, at the time I hadn't led any ice and felt comfortable with 1 axe and 1 tool, the sun cupping and crazy ice formations will give you plenty of places to shake out 'dem calves......and you'll be thankful. But remember ice grades are variable so take my advise with a grain of salt.

We just smiul-climbed the whole thing with 1 screw in, and re racked when we ran out. The headwall is very straightforward, but I would definitely recommend single length alpine draws at the minimum (we brought 4 or 5 doubles too). At least in late season, there are some crazy ice formations up there that will give you some rope drag problems.

There was some dinner plating, but mostly 1 swing sticks. Hero.

Overall really fun route, if you're doing it in late summer don't underestimate the route finding once you get over the headwall due to crevasse fields opening up, the rangers will likely have some good beta for you. Also if you're not doing it in a single push make sure to bivy @ camp hazard, we were moving super fast our first day and decided to climb the headwall and try to find a bivy spot up top.....we found one, but it was on a 20 degree slope next to a gapping crevasse. Slept with us and the tent tied in. Combined with a little AMS it is far from my fondest memory, but subjecting oneself to tolerable suffering is always good for the soul.

It depends on the temperature when you climb, but I wouldn't anticipate any dinner plating (especially if you're climbing the route late spring/early summer). When we climbed the route a number of years ago, the grade didn't exceed AI2. Both alpine draws and/or quickdraws will work just fine.

Shepido if you're looking for partners for the Kautz glacier route shoot me a PM. I'm also trying to do it, possibly in late spring or whenever conditions dictate!

The Kautz is a great route. Just enough off the beaten path, not too many people to clog up the route.

There is no headwall on the route it is a tongue. Being south facing the Kautz gets really sun cupped and some fun penitentes. The tongue will ice up nicely and is a best 35 degrees or so. Reports of 60 degree ice are form folks that either off route or in reality from those can not measure slope angle. There is usually two bits to the tongue.

Seems like we took a couple of screws, and simul climbed the ice using a single axe. I think Nate gives a good perspective of the real difficulties. As for your specific question. Bring alpine draws (full length draws) - sport draws are for the crags.

He is also correct about the upper part which is where the penitentes and cracks will give ya fits. The penitentes hide the cracks until you upon them. After the tongue most head right to the gap and go up the Upper Nisqually. However, one can also up "straight" up which will bring you the plateau between Point Success and Columbia Crest. We used it as an opportunity to step atop Point Success which the least visited high point on Rainier.

A couple of misc thoughts. Most camp about 200 feet below the true Camp Hazard which is prone to serac fall. However, the lower sites are often snow free. There is a short 10 m rappel to gain the traverse that leads to the base of the tongue. That traverse is also prone to serac fall. We saw some wicked blocks come down. Also consider doing a traverse of the hill coming down the DC. It makes for a nice round trip. The carry up and over is not that big of deal having done it a half a dozen times over the years on various routes.

Allen Sanderson wrote:A couple of misc thoughts. Most camp about 200 feet below the true Camp Hazard which is prone to serac fall. However, the lower sites are often snow free.

I'm headed up this route next month, but not sure I understand this comment. Are you suggesting to camp 200' lower because it is safer from serac fall?

Also, are most people rappelling the route on the descent (V-threads?), or carrying over?