Is this normal? (Toe holes in Miuras after 6 months)

that guy named seb wrote: What good rubber is firmer or more durable than xs edge?

Evolv trax. Not as good of rubber, but fine for the gym, and way more durable. Not terrible rubber by any means either. I've started getting my gym shoes (both pairs of which came with XS edge rubber) resoled at evolve. My outside shoes continue to get resoled with vibram rubber.

Bill Kirby wrote: I weigh 260 and I seem to wear out outdoors shoes about the same as everyone else. But now you mention it I think I wear out my gym shoes much quicker than my friends.

Ya, I've noticed us big guys will wear shoes out faster, especially at the gym. It kinda sucks, but its life I guess.

Bill Kirby wrote: I weigh 260...

Your poor shoes.

I think they last longer after a resole.. Factory Miuras tend to get a slight delam at the toe that speeds up the wear

JK- wrote: Evolv trax. Not as good of rubber, but fine for the gym, and way more durable. Not terrible rubber by any means either. I've started getting my gym shoes (both pairs of which came with XS edge rubber) resoled at evolve. My outside shoes continue to get resoled with vibram rubber. Ya, I've noticed us big guys will wear shoes out faster, especially at the gym. It kinda sucks, but its life I guess.

Did you seriously just call Trax rubber not terrible? It's like a car tire.

that guy named seb wrote: Did you seriously just call Trax rubber not terrible? It's like a car tire.

Climb a season in Red Chilis and then come back to trax. It's far from the best, but also far from the worst. It gets a job done, especially edging. Smearing it's pretty poor, but all but about two rubbers are. Trax is just fine for the gym. I even prefer it there because of it's durability.

The other nice thing getting a shoe resoled at evolve is that they are always happy to accommodate custom requests. Example: I get a double rand put on my more used pair of gym shoes. Helps them last longer, especially as my footwork gets really sloppy towards the end of a workout.

Matt N wrote:That's why you have cheap gym shoes and save the good ones for outside.

^this^

personally I go with old worn out junkers with holes in them for the gym

Weird that this thread got resurrected, but ok...

Yeah, I've climbed in Moccs, Katanas, and Evolv Shamans since the Miuras...none of them had the same issues. I resoled my Moccs recently because the rand had worn through a bit and they were getting slippery, but no signs of early toe rand damage and no toe caps. Same thing with the Katanas. I've also seen several identical threads pop up with the same issue. Gunkiemike's theory about toe-climbing makes sense, but I do that with my Shamans as well (they are designed even more for that) and they're still going strong, although the toebox rubber is super thick.

JK- wrote: Climb a season in Red Chilis and then come back to trax. It's far from the best, but also far from the worst. It gets a job done, especially edging. Smearing it's pretty poor, but all but about two rubbers are. Trax is just fine for the gym. I even prefer it there because of it's durability. The other nice thing getting a shoe resoled at evolve is that they are always happy to accommodate custom requests. Example: I get a double rand put on my more used pair of gym shoes. Helps them last longer, especially as my footwork gets really sloppy towards the end of a workout.

I heard the TRAX high friction is pretty good, very soft though and suffers durability issues. and true you could do allot worse, Boreals FS quotro definitely being one of the worst(if not THE WORST) examples on the market.

I have a couple points.

One, those are $160 shoes, don't treat them like $40 Mad Rocks. I mean that you should use them when you need the extra edging or the pointy toe to fit in a rock. Use them when you need the precision of a high end shoe. They should not be your gym shoes nor should they be your warm up shoes. If you want to take advantage of what shoes like this can do, I'd say that the Red really isn't the place with the exception of Soul Ram

They'd be lovely at the New, road trip?

Second, also owing to these being expensive high performance shoes. Don't expect infinite miles out of them and also resole them early. I get 3 resoles on mine before the first needed rand repair. I also inspect the wear areas frequently and send them in once the sole is thin enough that the rand will come into contact on edges. For those guys who climb until holes, this is 4-5 outings earlier than they send theirs in.

Resoling is expensive, I'm not sure those extra days make up for the extra resoling. I haven't done the math. I'm more interested in getting a high performance and predictable shoe back from the resoler. That is much more likely if I don't trash the rand.

Third and I think lastly, there is a phenomenon I'll refer to as INFINITE GUM (que dramatic music in the background).

It's what happens when you've got decent footwork, soft shoes, and footholds that aren't sharp. Your edges round over, your shoes fit like a sock with no pressure points, and your rubber lasts essentially forever. It's really common in Evolve and Mad Rock since their shoes have a tendency to get really soft. It's the reason that I've had pairs of Defy's that I wore out the velcro before the rubber. It's why I can take my most utterly thrashed stink nasty shoes and get 2 more years at the gym with them. Interestingly, this is the sweetspot for shoes on tight hands and finger cracks (think of your shoes as a rotor rooter driving it's way into the inner depths of that big .5 corner).

Anyway, infinite gum is attributable to why one poster thinks Evolve rubber is durable. If you use their shoes with a stiffener like the quest AF or Pontas Lace and climb frequently, you'd be lucky to get a few weeks. Infinite gum is also the reason one above poster got 2 years out of his Miura's. They were too big (otherwise he'd never be able to use them in IC) and when they're big, they are pretty soft.

In any case, the lifetime you can get from infinite gum can not be compared in any way to the lifetime you'll get from precise edging routes and paying attention when to get your next resole.

If I were you. I'd get a thick resole on those and use them to beat around on. They will never perform like they could have with a little care. Get a new pair and baby them, pretend they're glass slippers. They'll treat you right.

Locker wrote:It is very common (Normal) for Miuras to wear out right at the toe. One huge reason is how the sole is originally applied. On a new pair it APPEARS as if there is quite a bit of rubber at the toe. In fact, there is not! The sole is wrapped over and around the toe, leaving about 1-2mm at best. True for other shoe models as well. "Boreals FS quotro definitely being one of the worst(if not THE WORST) examples on the market." I could agree more.

please tell me about how you could agree more.

I had a pair of the Quantums and Quetzals, same molded rubber, 15 years ago.

I bought them on sale for $22. They weren't worth it.

Are they still on the market? I can't imagine.

The original packaging actually came with instructions on how to grind off the sole to "install" actual sticky rubber.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote:I had a pair of the Quantums and Quetzals, same molded rubber, 15 years ago. I bought them on sale for $22. They weren't worth it. Are they still on the market? I can't imagine. The original packaging actually came with instructions on how to grind off the sole to "install" actual sticky rubber.

Don't differing opinions about a 15 year old shoe suck :/
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that guy named seb wrote: I heard the TRAX high friction is pretty good, very soft though and suffers durability issues. and true you could do allot worse, Boreals FS quotro definitely being one of the worst(if not THE WORST) examples on the market.

I had a pair of montrail climbing shoes for a brief time (they didn't make climbing shoes for long), and the rubber was heinous. Hard and super slick. Almost like a discus throwers shoe. Still have a pair of Merrel climbing shoes kicking around (no idea how long or even when they tried that market... Judging by the colors late eighties/early nineties), they're pretty awful.

JK- wrote: I had a pair of montrail climbing shoes for a brief time (they didn't make climbing shoes for long), and the rubber was heinous. Hard and super slick. Almost like a discus throwers shoe. Still have a pair of Merrel climbing shoes kicking around (no idea how long or even when they tried that market... Judging by the colors late eighties/early nineties), they're pretty awful.

Eighties for sure, had a look at montrail shoe reviews i can find plenty of reviews saying they are really stiff though non saying the rubber is shite.

that guy named seb wrote: Eighties for sure, had a look at montrail shoe reviews i can find plenty of reviews saying they are really stiff though non saying the rubber is shite.

Those are the ones. $5 at a yard sale in fantastic condition was to good to pass up, if only for the bright colors.

My Miura laces wore out more quickly than a lot of other shoes I've owned in that same spot. I also found them stiff and uncomfortable where they crease across the top of the foot at the base of the toes, so I stopped bothering with them (even though I was able to get them on pro deal).
I know that in our gym they sprayed on a new coat of texture that absolutely tore up everybody's shoes. There was literally a nest of fine rubber shavings sitting on the top of every hold. They re-sprayed and made it a little better, but still a ridiculous idea to have any sandpapery texture on the walls. Probably not a coincidence that the gym sells shoes! Seems that's improved with time, I guess eventually the texture wears down after having sanded enough shoes through the rands. Hopefully they won't reapply that shit, as it definitely does more harm than good.
I no longer wear shoes down much in the toe now that I've stopped dragging my toes like I used to, and I second the advice of others to work on your technique. Toward that end, I'd suggest you don't go with some clunker shoe that has no sensitivity or precision; instead, I'd get a cheaper shoe with a similar shape and perhaps even more sensitivity. After all, gym climbing should be fun and challenging in a way that at least somewhat approximates outdoor climbing (minus the fresh air, views and peace and quiet) and climbing technically with shoes purposed for that is key. I've been super happy gym climbing in La Sportiva Cobras, which should fit your foot well if you do well in Miuras. They're generally available for around $90 on sale if you look around online. The problem is finding a pair to try on. I think I wear about a euro size smaller in cobras than miuras (they stretch since they're unlined).