Devils Lake: Best place to take first time climbers

"Black coat, white shoes, black hat, Cadillac..."

The bolt is fine. Back it up if you need to...it's not like you're going to whip off of it.

Eh, people rap off of tattered webbing all the time...but then again, people also die rappelling more often than they should. You could probably wrap your rope around the whole pillar if you wanted to, but it's such a short rap that I thought it was worth the risk for the photo op.

What I don't like is that the bolt isn't fully seated against the rock, so the "hanger" spins. Bolts are strong in tension, not as strong in shear, which is how this one is loaded. In this instance, you can also counterbalance rappel off opposite sides (rope running through the rap ring still), so you don't even load the rap ring.

Brandon Seerup wrote:What I don't like is that the bolt isn't fully seated against the rock, so the "hanger" spins. Bolts are strong in tension, not as strong in shear, which is how this one is loaded. In this instance, you can also counterbalance rappel off opposite sides (rope running through the rap ring still), so you don't even load the rap ring.

So much safer lowering your partner down and then threading the rope like a counterbalance once they are down. They put you on a tied off belay (or even set up an anchor on the bottom) then you rap off the line fixed to the ground or your partner.

I sure wouldn't want a first time leader doing a real counterbalance rappel when they don't need to.

I just rap from the bolt like thousands of others have done.

Agreed, that's all I meant by counterbalance rappel - rappel with a counterweight instead of top anchor. Not a "simul-rap" or anything. My only point is that trusting the single bolt is not the only way off the tower.

I have placed and replaced a lot of bolts and the bolt on cleos is dangerous. It is extremely old and is less than 3/8 inch which is the minimum standard in climbing. I have pulled many bolts that look fine on the outside and are extremely rusted or corroded internally. Its a sad state that we cannot work with the park to replace old, dangerous anchors such as this one.

Well, it's Devil's Lake. Rocks > trees > people. :D

Here is a photo and a discussion of the bolt in question. Just more food for thought. This topic has now shifted from the title. Split it off? Leave it?

mountainproject.com/v/10720…

Chris treggE wrote:Here is a photo and a discussion of the bolt in question. Just more food for thought. This topic has now shifted from the title. Split it off? Leave it? mountainproject.com/v/10720…

I think this should shift into a discussion of bolting sometimes direct.

So my wife is out - she was watching me climb and is going to go indoors instead, but my sister in law is 100% in, so I think I am going to go with Devils Doorway Romper, Leaning Tower South Side, and Queens Throne. Any other good suggestions now that "out of the way" and "no leading" requirements are gone?

The Spine
Easy Overhang
Foreplay

Seth Jones wrote:Queens Throne is an awesome lead. Foreplay would be great too. Devils Doorway and Leaning Tower are really short climbs.

I know what climbs are good leads and have lead those, I am asking more about which climbs are good for a first time climber, not first time leader. Foreplay is a 5.5 and great easy lead, but I doubt a first time climber is getting up it.

OTOH, Devils Doorway and Leaning Tower are both 5.2, short, and easy to get up for a first time climber. I am trying to get other ideas for super easy 5.2-5.3 climbs a first time climber can get up, even if they are trad only.

3nl wrote:I am trying to get other ideas for super easy 5.2-5.3 climbs a first time climber can get up, even if they are trad only.

List

James M Schroeder wrote: List

Yes I've done that search, but that list doesn't take into account approach or rappel, whether it requires jams, if it's a squeeze chimney, whether it is more than usual sandbagged, or if it is going to be a flailfest for a first timer. I got a few ideas now from earlier in the thread, but figured I would ask for others now that the original restrictions I was looking at have been loosened.

3nl wrote: Yes I've done that search, but that list doesn't take into account approach or rappel, whether it requires jams, if it's a squeeze chimney, whether it is more than usual sandbagged, or if it is going to be a flailfest for a first timer. I got a few ideas now from earlier in the thread, but figured I would ask for others now that the original restrictions I was looking at have been loosened.

Speaking from the point of view as someone who has taken quite a few people out for their first day of climbing, I think you might be over-analyzing a tad.

Last beta I'll offer.

Park at the North Shore, go to Monolith Blocks. Easy approach, nice views, plus you can get ice cream at the chateau afterward. If that's not a positive enough experience for your beginner crew, then nothing will be.

James M Schroeder wrote: Speaking from the point of view as someone who has taken quite a few people out for their first day of climbing, I think you might be over-analyzing a tad. Last beta I'll offer. Park at the North Shore, go to Monolith Blocks. Easy approach, nice views, plus you can get ice cream at the chateau afterward. If that's not a positive enough experience for your beginner crew, then nothing will be.

This is exactly what I was looking for!