Lead logistics at Devil's Lake

Hey everyone,

So, I've just started getting into leading at the lake and am looking to improve my efficiency to get on more climbs in a day. What usually has slowed us down is building anchors. The way I've approached it in the past has been to hike up to the top of the cliff and setup an anchor like I'm toproping, rapp down, then lead back up and either lower so my partner can lead it, or belay him up to clean it. The problem is that A) this is poor practice for most trad multipitch scenarios, and B) setting TR anchors is time consuming, as you have to figure out where to hang the masterpoint, ensure the rope isn't running over the edge, etc. I'm thinking that leading up, building an anchor, and belaying my second to clean will be much faster and better practice, but my concern is the logistics of getting back down. A few ideas...

1) Bring an extra rope and setup a dedicated rappel station.
I got this idea from one of the lead challenges (Royal Arches?). Right now, seems like a promising option.

2) Build an anchor at the top of a climb, then rappel down that anchor and use the same anchor for nearby climbs. Also mentioned in the challenge. Could work, as long as you're doing routes that are close together.

3) Hike down. Sometimes, this might actually be faster.

What do you guys do?

I agree: in my experience building an anchor to belay up a second takes less time than one with a properly located master point for TR'ing or lowering.

I think what we end up doing the most of is trying to set our anchor so that it can be used to TR a more difficult, neighboring route. That doubles your "routes per anchor" right off the bat, if TR'ing the next climb is something you're in to. For me, I almost always build this anchor at the end - I like having my full rack with me for the climb.

As a pretty risk-averse climber, I generally prefer the hike down to the rap (when practical). For me, the time difference is small and you have eliminated the most dangerous part of the process... YMMV.

I usually lead up an easy route and set an anchor once I get to the top. For most tops a cordalette or longer strand of webbing will allow you to set a point below the top edge. I then usually rappel and TR with my partner all of the routes ~20 feet to the left and right. Last route up the person cleans, then hikes back down for the next lead. Or with enough gear, the last person up can top out, clean, and set the next TR anchor and rap down.

I've also had a dedicated rappel line before, like you've mentioned. A rappel anchor is an easier and faster setup because you don't have to worry about where your rope is positioned. It's also nice to have when you know nature of the route is going to cause your rope to rub against a lot of rock on lowering, so once you/your partner gets to the top, you switch over the the rappel line and rap down.

Lead a pitch, build an anchor, belay the second, walk down. You can easily get on double digit pitches.

Most places at the lake shouldn't take more than a few minutes to build the anchor. Just practice and practice and you'll get fast!

Also almost everywhere has an easy walk/scramble down so that's not a problem at the lake.

I lead with my shoes clipped to my harness and then walk back to the bottom if I am short shot away from an access (think Orgasm or Upper D). If leading in places like mouses wall/Tfair to BOC, I set up a single line rap. I set up a single line so people don't confuse it with a TR, and I usually place it off route on a busy day, or else off the single tree above Tfair if too many people are not around and or people climbing that route.

So, climber leads, make a quick belay on top, then walk or rap back down to the ground. Some people also use 30 or 40 meter ropes on leading days as a 60 or 70 is a pain in the ass. You can easily get in 10 routes in just a few hours.

I've never set a dedicated rap line, not a bad idea! I guess we never stay in the same place long enough :)

i like the move down the bluff method as outlined in the noble arches link up. this method uses all of the easy access gullies to minimize walking time. still requires building anchors, but you are never TR'ing off them, just as a rap point or as guide mode masterpoint. fast anchors and quick transitions will be the breaking point for getting 10+ pitches in. oh and don't climb slow ;)

Yep. Cool, thanks for the ideas, guys. Heading there tomorrow to do Turk's and whatever else we can fit in at the West Rampart...hopefully between the Ridge and Lost Face, we can hit double digits for pitches, if you count all 7 of them as "pitches." ;)

I've used all three of those strategies. Hiking versus rapping, I agree with Jon, it mostly depends on how close you are to a decent access gully. Some people use flip-flops instead of sneakers, especially along the East Rampart.

I'll also second what Jon says about rap lines - off to the side of any likely route, and fixed so that no one could accidentally use it as a top rope. Keep in mind that your rap anchor is likely to show up as a photo on the "cluster" thread!

Re-purposing a belay anchor - I don't often use the same anchor for multiple routes (but that would be a good strategy for a trad marathon). But often I'll lead, belay, rap from that anchor, pull the rope and do a route not too far away, then walk over and grab my gear when I'm at the top of the next route. It is handy to have two cordolettes for this, so that you can belay up your partner, then grab your old anchor while your partner is rappeling. (And be aware that gear is occasionally pilfered, though not often.)

If you and your partner can keep up a pitch-per-30-to-40-minutes pace for 4-5 hours, you are ready for a lot of multipitch routes.

Ha! I remember when Doug's rap line made the cluster thread.

Lol. I mean...it doesn't take much to hold a rappel. I can imagine a single line would look super sketchy if someone thought it was a toprope, though!

If you are leading all day use the rope for all your anchoring. Strong, its already with you, and you have plenty left at DL.. Anyone getting any big days in yet this year/ Always like to hear about people gettin' after it.

Belaying 2nd (or was it 3rd? 4th?) on Turk's Head Ridge

From last Saturday on Turk's Head Ridge.

Prime dutchman's breeches weather, still.

Doug Hemken wrote:Prime dutchman's breeches weather, still.

Doug,
Do you find the dutchman's breeches help with lead climbing logistics? I'm looking for a new pair of lead climbing pants, hopefully best suited for Devil's Lake trad climbing. preferably in blue, but i've read green helps with high gravity days... \s

oh wait, dutchman's breeches is a plant. disregard my attempt at trolling. on second thought, it looks like its useful for treating syphilis! are you trying to tell Dylan something, Doug?

good weather at the lake this weekend. how many pitches did you get in Ted? We were only able to snag 3...

MR

Someone please permanently ban Dylan for rubbing that in our faces!!

;)

Dylan B. wrote: You got it backwards. You guys have 3 months of fantastic weather coming down the pike. We've already been exiled from our front porch by the mosquitoes.

Yeah, we'LL have decent weather someday, but it's still a month or so away. I'm just jealous because I'm sick of the cold and the immediate forecast SUCKS.

Mike Robinson wrote:how many pitches did you get in Ted? We were only able to snag 3... MR

Only three!?!?!?! What, did you only have an hour?

(P.S. That is how you troll Mike ;-))

James M Schroeder wrote: Only three!?!?!?! What, did you only have an hour? (P.S. That is how you troll Mike ;-))

25 mins ;)

Mike Robinson wrote: Doug, Do you find the dutchman's breeches help with lead climbing logistics? I'm looking for a new pair of lead climbing pants, hopefully best suited for Devil's Lake trad climbing. preferably in blue, but i've read green helps with high gravity days... \s oh wait, dutchman's breeches is a plant. disregard my attempt at trolling. on second thought, it looks like its useful for treating syphilis! are you trying to tell Dylan something, Doug? good weather at the lake this weekend. how many pitches did you get in Ted? We were only able to snag 3... MR

We got through most of Turk's Head, but Weizner's was mobbed. Headed over to the West Rampart to do Lost Face, but it was mobbed as well, so we threw up a TR on Son of Great Chimney and what turned out to be an unnamed 5.8 that I added to MP.

Ted Pinson wrote: We got through most of Turk's Head, but Weizner's was mobbed. Headed over to the West Rampart to do Lost Face, but it was mobbed as well, so we threw up a TR on Son of Great Chimney and what turned out to be an unnamed 5.8 that I added to MP.

Sounds like you didn't wake up early enough.