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La Sportiva Muira toebox

Original Post
Jake Thomson · · Yosemite · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 5

ordered some Muiras. i wear size 10 street shoe and i ordered 41 muiras. there is a lot of space in the toe box. is this normal? there is just a huge air pocket right behind my toes. I tried on the VCS at REI to make sure i was getting the right size and didn't have a problem. I know these are virtually different shoes but i figured the fit would be somewhat similar

that guy named seb · · Britland · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 236

Probably, Miuras were my first pair of performance shoes so i couldn't say if it's normal. It's a really old design so it wouldn't surprise me, most other shoes have a little bump to fill in that space now days.

Jake Thomson · · Yosemite · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 5

Yea man I've been climbing for quite a while so this is by no means my first aggressive shoe so its very disconcerting. and i can't return them so I'm kind of pissed. and I thought Sportive's would fit my shoe better because i have very narrow feet and toes.

that guy named seb · · Britland · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 236
Soulless Ginger wrote:Yea man I've been climbing for quite a while so this is by no means my first aggressive shoe so its very disconcerting. and i can't return them so I'm kind of pissed. and I thought Sportive's would fit my shoe better because i have very narrow feet and toes.
It probably fits you perfectly fine, you have to remember the miura is a very very old shoe design, well over 10 years old. The reason the miura vs lacks that little space is because it's a much much newer design your shoe isn't ill fitting or poorly designed, it's just a bit old school.
Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 252

They are VERY different shoes. If I recall, the larger toebox was a part of the design and sport climbers used it to downsize more aggressively. Conversely, if you size them big, it makes them more comfortable and probably less painful in cracks (I only ever owned a performance pair).

Quinn Baker · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2016 · Points: 1

The lace and VS versions of the Miura are completely different shoes, I don't even know why La Sportiva thought it made sense to give them the same name.

Fit problems are why I usually try not to order new shoes online without having a place to try them on. Hope you can find a use for the shoes or at least sell/trade them to get a different pair.

nathanael · · Riverside, CA · Joined May 2011 · Points: 525

If you're looking for a performance fit in both you should size lace miuras smaller than the VCS. The space in the toe box will be filled with your toe knuckles if your toes are curled. Unless you mean space somewhere else?

that guy named seb · · Britland · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 236
Quinn Baker wrote:The lace and VS versions of the Miura are completely different shoes, I don't even know why La Sportiva thought it made sense to give them the same name. Fit problems are why I usually try not to order new shoes online without having a place to try them on. Hope you can find a use for the shoes or at least sell/trade them to get a different pair.
I think the two shoes are actually very similar, the miura vs is simply an updated version of the Miura, it's everything the old version is meant to be.
Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 252

I disagree. Although they're built on the same last, the P3 and lack of laces makes a big difference. The VS feels significantly more aggressive and edges better at the cost of sensitivity.

Jake Thomson · · Yosemite · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 5
Nathanael wrote:If you're looking for a performance fit in both you should size lace miuras smaller than the VCS. The space in the toe box will be filled with your toe knuckles if your toes are curled. Unless you mean space somewhere else?
There is also space in the front of the ankle. Its just a weird fit I've never experienced something like it. like I'm nearly two whole sizes down and i can move my toes back and forth.
that guy named seb · · Britland · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 236
Ted Pinson wrote:I disagree. Although they're built on the same last, the P3 and lack of laces makes a big difference. The VS feels significantly more aggressive and edges better at the cost of sensitivity.
This still doesn't tell me how it isn't the shoe the original miura was meant to be.
Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 252

People used (and still use) the original Miura for a much wider range of applications. Alex Honnold did a lot of his big wall solos in Miuras, but trying to do that in a VCS would be foot suicide. People also use Miura laces for crack climbing, which would be excrutiatng in VCS. Basically, people took advantage of the toebox by either downsizing aggressively for sport climbing, which evolved into the VCS, or feeling comfy for all-day trad climbing. The extra downturn and stiffness makes the VCS unsuitable for this and turned the Miura into a one dimensional, but powerful, edging machine.

Harry Netzer · · Roxbury, CT · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 145

seb, let me settle their hash. The platonic ideal of the Miura, and all that implies---racecars, eagle talons, Japan...---is approached in the form of the VCS. The visionaries at La Sportiva don't sell shoes, rather answers, Solutions to the ever present question Can I Edge? that occupies the subconscious mind at every moment. The Miura, speaking from a functionalist standpoint, is an affirmation of Edge in either model. Therefore you can forget about trivialities like velcro vs lace, completely different lasts between the models, toebox, hell even your toes. A pair of Sportivas, as long as it's one of their upper models, is not of the physical world. Hopefully this clears things up.

Mark Paulson · · Raleigh, NC · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 141

Just for the record, I wear a 9 street shoe, and wear a 39.5 in both the Miura and Miura VS, both sized for high-yet-bearable performance. They both fit great, though I do have a rather wide foot. And to those who consider Miuras to be "old-school" technical edging shoes, remember that a certain Czech kid seems to choose them over all others to climb horizontal 5.15c. . .

Old school footwear?

that guy named seb · · Britland · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 236
Mark Paulson wrote: And to those who consider Miuras to be "old-school" technical edging shoes, remember that a certain Czech kid seems to choose them over all others to climb horizontal 5.15c. . .
Never said miuras are bad, just old school, there's a reason why they haven't changed at all in the past 10 years.

Ignoring the velcro there are no actual differences the down turn is exactly the same the only difference is the P3 downturn and a updated toe box, I think you guys underestimate the true power of the P3 platform it allows for the shoe to remain it's true shape even while on your foot, my miuras flattened out after about 3-4 months of use my speedsters with the p3 platform held their shape for over 8 months. It's just a update if you still don't believe me just look at the two side by side.

miura

miura vs
The only design difference is the P3 platform, that's what's made this shoe feel so different.
Jake Thomson · · Yosemite · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 5

I was under the impression that the VCS did have a more downturned profile. Outdoor gear lab said this in their reviews. Not saying they are always right, but I'm just going by what they said. Im too lazy to go grab the picture but they had a side by side where the lace up is obviously more flat.

like i said this is my first time switching over to La Sportiva so I'm just gong off what i've read.

Bill Czajkowski · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 20

The laceups are a narrower shoe with quite a bit more precision (point) in the shape of the toe. Also, because of the last difference, they don't hold their shape as well. I very much like the laceup as a edging, just off vertical face shoe. Honestly I think the VCS is a more generic shoe (everybody makes a model like it these days) than the laceup.

Ted Pinson · · Chicago, IL · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 252

Ginger/Seb the P3 IMO makes it a totally different shoe. Even if they're the same downturn out of the box, they won't be after a few months. All Sportiva shoes are built to be worn as they fit after breaking in, and they break in very differently.

Josh Janes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2001 · Points: 9,954

Ted is correct on this one: the shoes are very different in both performance and design. Right out of the box they are different. And no, the downturn is NOT the same. The lace-ups (which I have been wearing for 15 years) are almost flat (very slight downturn). The VCS has noticeably more downturn. The lace-ups are a great jack-of-all-trades shoe; the VCS is an edging machine and does not perform nearly as well if you need to rand smear or crack climb.

that guy named seb · · Britland · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 236
Josh Janes wrote:Ted is correct on this one: the shoes are very different in both performance and design. Right out of the box they are different. And no, the downturn is NOT the same. The lace-ups (which I have been wearing for 15 years) are almost flat (very slight downturn). The VCS has noticeably more downturn. The lace-ups are a great jack-of-all-trades shoe; the VCS is an edging machine and does not perform nearly as well if you need to rand smear or crack climb.
My picture and the product specs both say they have the same downturn, that being said they are not made on the same last you can check on lasportiva's European sight and it shows the velcro version being wider,the performance difference is because the shoe is doing allot more work in the velcro than orignal miura because rather than the shoe conforming to the shape of your foot, your foot conforms to the shape of the shoe, it's all in the P3. The original was never made to be a super versatile shoe, people figured that part out later.
that guy named seb · · Britland · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 236
Bill Czajkowski wrote:The laceups are a narrower shoe with quite a bit more precision (point) in the shape of the toe.
miura

miura vs
They look the same to me.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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