Quantity and spacing of ice screws...
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I've started leading ice this season - just easy stuff at this point, but I try and take time to watch other leaders whenever I can just to see what I can learn and compare how they protect the route versus what I would do. I’ve noticed that other leaders really vary the amount and spacing of their pro. |
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Shepido wrote:A small crowd gathered to watch, and a few commented that it was ridiculous how much pro he was putting in, one guy going so far as to call it a shit show. I’ve sort of noticed this underlying attitude with ice leading that essentially skill and pro are inversely related, if you’re a great ice climber you’ll place just a hand full of screws in a whole route, and if you place a lot of pro you’re either inexperienced or in over your head.Climbing is a form of personal self-expression. How we choose to protect a pitch is directly related to our risk tolerance and comfort in the terrain. Negatively judging others for putting in a lot of gear (either on a pitch of ice or on a gear route) is BS. While many of us would agree it's more fun/easier to run it out because things flow more and you spend less time in pumpy situations, running it out for fear of the peanut gallery calling you a shit show should be avoided. When you feel ready, you should run it out because it feels like the natural thing to do. (ie: the climbing feels easy for you and the gear feels somewhat less important than it used to) You shouldn't do it because you're looking over your shoulder at the people around you. "The best climber is the one having the most fun." We don't get to tell each other how to have fun unless our fun is putting someone else at risk. |
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Well said, Max. +1 |
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Shepido wrote: Anyone fall on an ice screw on lead? Thanks for the link, that was a good read. Max's response there was a good one, agree 100%. I'm far from an experienced leader, having just started this year like you. My thinking is that if I'm at a good stance, I'm going to place a screw. That's pretty easy to do on well travelled WI3's, so I wind up placing quite a few screws (I think). That will probably change once I start leading harder routes with less good stances to place pro. I rarely ever think about how high above my last piece I am, usually I prioritize thinking about ensuring my tool placements are solid, my feet are good, and where/how I'm going to place pro. If I need to run it out a bit to get to a better stance, I think I'd be pretty comfortable doing that as long as my tool placements are good and my feet are solid. I'm definitely interested in hearing about others thoughts as well. |
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Shepido wrote:The guy a few lines over placed around 10-12 screws on a pitch of similar length. A small crowd gathered to watch, and a few commented that it was ridiculous how much pro he was putting in, one guy going so far as to call it a shit show.Sadly, there are people in most sports whose self-image is so out-of-whack that they need to belittle others. Run it out, sew it up, do whatever you please. And respect others' styles of climbing. |
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this is one of the all-time best post on MP Max Tepfer wrote: Climbing is a form of personal self-expression. How we choose to protect a pitch is directly related to our risk tolerance and comfort in the terrain. Negatively judging others for putting in a lot of gear (either on a pitch of ice or on a gear route) is BS. While many of us would agree it's more fun/easier to run it out because things flow more and you spend less time in pumpy situations, running it out for fear of the peanut gallery calling you a shit show should be avoided. When you feel ready, you should run it out because it feels like the natural thing to do. (ie: the climbing feels easy for you and the gear feels somewhat less important than it used to) You shouldn't do it because you're looking over your shoulder at the people around you. "The best climber is the one having the most fun." We don't get to tell each other how to have fun unless our fun is putting someone else at risk. |
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There is an art to placing screws. Keeping yourself from hitting the ground is key. I've seen newish leaders head up placing gear every x feet. When they are placing the 3rd screw they are 3x off the ground protected by one screw. Say x = 15 ft, they are looking at a 45 ft ground fall if that one screw doesn't hold. |
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Ok, some of this sounds good but I feel Shepido's question was not answered. Here goes.. |
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+1 what Bill says - place lots of screws. Even if you don't feel you need them and/or your judgemental friends are scoffing at you. You're a new ice leader! Think of it as practice (for those leads to come where you WILL need screws). |
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1. Place as many screws as you need to stay safe. |
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Cold Thistle has a two-part post on the fall that killed a legend. |
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JohnnyG wrote:There is an art to placing screws. Keeping yourself from hitting the ground is key. I've seen newish leaders head up placing gear every x feet. When they are placing the 3rd screw they are 3x off the ground protected by one screw. Say x = 15 ft, they are looking at a 45 ft ground fall if that one screw doesn't hold. I place more screws than I used to. Especially when I'm close to the ground and or a ledge.This is an excellent point. It seems like those first probably 4 or so screws are pretty important, and that they be pretty closely spaced. |
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I dunno, I think in ice climbing simple rules of keeping leader off the deck don't apply. For example if the start of the climb is an easy cone, leaders usually don't place any gear till they get to the base of steep climbing and the cone could be as high as 50 feet or over. I've also seen newish leaders place so many screws you start questioning the integrity of ice after that. |
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People who are good at what they do generally don't criticize the efforts of others. I would ignore people who criticize somebody for over protecting since their opinion is probably not valuable. |
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Iv'e been climbing ice for some years now. What I have experienced personally is that if I start to get tired, I will probably place fewer screws to save energy on steep stuff. These days 5+ feels like a fun romp without getting tired, so I place more screws since saving energy is not a concern. That being said putting screws in every body length is probably excessive, but you dont want just one keeping you from a catastrophic fall. So In my opinion a climber who has the strength to place more pro is a stronger climber than the one who runs it out, they may not be as bold as the latter, but they are safer and I would rather climb with someone who puts in more pro than someone who will come a few feet from the deck in a fall b/c they are run out. |