Why do so few climbers have a good fingerboard routine?

Ted Pinson wrote:I believe Ondra said he does 5 or 6 days a week; and that's TRAIN, not just climb.

Yes, Adam Ondra does multi-week phases where he trains hard and often, but
not with fingerboarding.

kenr wrote: Yes, Adam Ondra does multi-week phases where he trains hard and often, but not with fingerboarding.

That is true but he also says that he never feels like he fails due to finger strength and that his weakness is dynamic power so he trains campus board really heavily. Not really the normal experience.

I don't know about you but almost all the time the reason I struggle is finger strength. There are things that I want to climb that I can't hold statically so I need more strength before it is even possible. And my personal experience is hangboarding works for me.

You sit there, drilled to the doorframe, mocking me.
You hide your true nature beneath a guise of friendly tie-dye.
A neat decoration; an original piece of wall art; a fun party trick.
But you are not.
You are a bully.
No matter how many attempts, or how hard the effort, you always win.
You are unrelenting.
Hang. Hope. Struggle. Burn. Pump. Fall.
You laugh, as thoughts darken.
A route can be conquered. Get the redpoint and walk away. The burden lifted; the route reduced to a check in the guidebook, a warm memory.
You can never be conquered.
You are more honest than the mirror.
Can’t hold on long enough. Could have held on longer.
The runner has the track.
The tennis player has the wall.
Rock climbers have you.
You are hated, but you are needed.
You are the route without an approach; the belay without a partner; the gym without the commute.
You are fresh rubber without a resole, and a smooth clip on an old draw.
A couple more seconds. A few more moves. Back and forth, back and forth.
Three finger pockets.
Two finger.
Mono.
Fight the pump.
Think positive thoughts about long pitches and long days made easier by the toil.
And of course, better party tricks.

www.pacmountaineering.com

Aleks Zebastian wrote: climbing friend, The idea that fingerboarding is somehow better for improving than hard climbing is ridiculous most. It's most unclear that fingerboarding is any better than pointless for improving, unless you truly cannot get to a crag or boulders or climbing gym 3-4 times per week.

Dammit Aleks! You stole the words right off my keyboard! Excellent advice!
#neckmeat

climbing friend,

I too would very much like believe in magic of fingerboard and that it may help me for better than getting out there to grip the climbing rocks. Hocus pocus, supercalafragilistic, prestidigitonium.

I complete several macro cycles of abstaining from sex to allow my sexual frustration levels to peak, with results graphed in spreadsheet, so that I may hangboard this winter passing, but I secretly know that it's probably quite foolish unless used not at all or perhaps as small addition to great volumes of time on climbing rocks or if cannot find adequate time for rocks. I think the magic lies in the quick time of workout if you cannot find hours crushing though it would not be inherently better myah.

How may it be better than your crushing boulders where you develop not only the strength and the power thrusting up tiny hold on steep wall, but you also practice your rock reading, moving technique of lunging tiger pouncing and rushing river flowing and tiny feet a'dancing, and develop your mental?

It's hard to argue against the brutal effectiveness of Anderson bro's training routine. It's even more evident when you see footages of how they climb. I don't have their level of finger strength/endurance, but I also don't think I quite need their level of finger strength/endurance to climb the same route level.

While almost all strong climbers I know (who aren't full time sponsored) do some finger boarding, many only use it as a supplemental exercise & they too have their results to show for. IMO, it's not so cut & dry that session long fingerboard training is the most effective use of time, but without easy access to climbing gyms, what else are you gonna do? Still, it bores me easily as it's about as far removed from skilled training as it can be.

Aleks Zebastian wrote: climbing friend, The idea that fingerboarding is somehow better for improving than hard climbing is ridiculous most. It's most unclear that fingerboarding is any better than pointless for improving, unless you truly cannot get to a crag or boulders or climbing gym 3-4 times per week. This would be especially true if you are beginner or intermediate and can only crushing the 5.10 or 5.11 climbing rocks. Just look at irony of "traning beta" podcast featuring pros who climb v13+ and 5.15b who don't train but instead climb a lot and constantly try hard projects. On this podcast yes I listen for neck meat, Ethan Pringle just wang-slapped advice from known "trainers" by saying their saying is complete nonsense, of - if you can't send something after several tries, you need to go back and train, and that he does no train or finger the board. "Training" is quite good if you cannot get on the climbing rocks for actual, or if you are quite nerdy with the spreadsheets and have excessive amounts of sexual frustration you need to release, or if you simply want to feel like you are accomplishing something in regarding the climbing when you likely actually accomplish little or nothing, yes? "Training" is also good if you want to take the advantage of others' insecurities and mediocrity and sell them devices and programs! Instead you must go clamp your crushing grip down on some climbing rocks and thrust yourself up many times, with maximum effort until you have the crushing palm of iron fist and powerful eagle talon crimp and you climb as man or woman of power with impeccable style! Ho ho ho, ha ha ha, he he he, ho ha he hya hmmmmmmmmmyyyyyaaaaaahhhhh!!!

Excellent advice per usual.

quote/> It's even more evident when you see footages of how they climb. I don't have their level of finger strength/endurance, but I also don't think I quite need their level of finger strength/endurance to climb the same route level. </quote

hmmm, i dont really agre with either of these statements. i would say you probably have as strong or stronger fingers. as for the second part....

About ten years ago the hang board launch me from regularly climbing V6 to V9 in about three months. I have not been able to repeat this success, but it does work, ya know, if ya work it.

slim wrote: hmmm, i dont really agre with either of these statements. i would say you probably have as strong or stronger fingers. as for the second part....

I doubt it. I may have strong fingers, but run me thru one of their training set & I guarantee I won't measure up, and not for lack of trying. It's all relative. I'm currently trying a route (not really my style) that has a number of videos floating around & I know I can't clamp it down like the elder Anderson (not a knock on him at all, given the unique set of circumstances), but I fully believe I can send soon.

Its important to realize that there are thousands of climber who don't have access to climb during the week: anyone who doesn't live nearby a crag or in a city.

In a training sense, fingerboards can also isolate the grip being used and the intensity can be varied. This a distinct advantage over solely climbing routes.

reboot wrote: I doubt it. I may have strong fingers, but run me thru one of their training set & I guarantee I won't measure up, and not for lack of trying. It's all relative. I'm currently trying a route (not really my style) that has a number of videos floating around & I know I can't clamp it down like the elder Anderson (not a knock on him at all, given the unique set of circumstances), but I fully believe I can send soon.

say what??? don't make me post the photo of you doing the ring finger one pad mono front levering thing....

what i was saying before though, i think you may be underestimating their technical skills. having climbed with mark, i was more impressed by his technical skills and refined tactical skills than by his strength (which is obviously still pretty impressive for a 9 to 5 working stiff).

slim wrote: say what??? don't make me post the photo of you doing the ring finger one pad mono front levering thing....

I'm willing to bet both Andersons can easily ring finger mono on the beastmaker (especially Mark, since mono is part of his nickname, and I sure as hell can't campus 1-5-8.5 on the small rungs, or even 1-4-7, and no one has ever accused me of lacking explosive pull power). Peter Beal can easily do it (I know he can also crank way more pullups on the heinous 5mm custom wooden edge at the BRC). It just isn't a remarkable show of finger strength for someone climbing/projecting mid 5.14, V11/12 or harder. Yes, I have strong fingers for someone climbing 5.13/V8, but that's not where I'm at.

I keep saying it but nobody listens. Front levers are useless in climbing. Repeat, useless. Hangboarding is less useless for sure but still no substitute for actually bouldering or rope climbing on something hard. Campusing has its place as well but again by itself is no substitute for climbing.

Aleks Zebastian wrote:climbing friend, I too would very much like believe in magic of fingerboard and that it may help me for better than getting out there to grip the climbing rocks. Hocus pocus, supercalafragilistic, prestidigitonium. I complete several macro cycles of abstaining from sex to allow my sexual frustration levels to peak, with results graphed in spreadsheet, so that I may hangboard this winter passing, but I secretly know that it's probably quite foolish unless used not at all or perhaps as small addition to great volumes of time on climbing rocks or if cannot find adequate time for rocks. I think the magic lies in the quick time of workout if you cannot find hours crushing though it would not be inherently better myah. How may it be better than your crushing boulders where you develop not only the strength and the power thrusting up tiny hold on steep wall, but you also practice your rock reading, moving technique of lunging tiger pouncing and rushing river flowing and tiny feet a'dancing, and develop your mental?

I think I will use the three magic words above for my climbing related cursing from now on. Maybe the magic will transfer.

My hope from hang-boarding is that I will have enough crushing grip to overcome my lack of rock reading, moving technique (tiger pouncing variety but also rushing river flow too), mental and tiny feet a'dancing. I am under no illusion that I will reach my "max" climbing potential by only hanging and getting a hard session at a gym every other week. I do however hope to be more off-balanced climber in the hopes of overall becoming able to send harder routes.

I always lose my routine because I never think it's safe to hangboard around the days when I've been climbing.

...

I guess I really don't know how much rest to build into a routine, assuming that I'm not willing to skip a good weekend due to hang boarding.

with you on that one. although it's not dangerous to TRY it if you warm up properly and stop if you feel any strains. its not like you just jump into +50lb tiny edges with no warmup. youll feel any overuse injuries coming in advance and can stop.

climb both weekend days, rest hands monday, climbing gym tuesday, rest wednesday, climbing gym thursday, rest friday.

1. I could probably build a hangboard session in on wednesday night and just see how it goes, and see if it really affects me on thursday or not
2. It would still be better to just go to the gym more days per week. Right now I go for 3-4 hours 2x a week, but honestly 4-5 1-hour sessions where I stop before getting "completely beat" would likely be more optimal.
3. Hangboarding after climbing is a mixed bag, if I have a good climbing session, I'm tired and can't match my previous hangboard sessions making it hard to gauge how much HB intensity to use on a given day and hard to measure progress.

Aleks, I also take my sexual frustrations out on many spreadsheets. Right now I am peaking a very high-volume macrocycle of sexual frustration with much success.

Common cognitive trap: Yes/no. 

Real answer - it depends.

I miss aleks