What knot would you use?

Couldn't find a photo of the other side, but what knot do y'all suppose is best in this situation. I am assuming the knot is on the other side of the tree, out of view. Looks like the rope/cord is tied in a loop, then folded in half and doubled up, then wrapped around the tree and tied in a figure 8 on a bight. Might also just be an overhand, hard to tell.

Separate question: Would two of these, each on separate trees or metal poles (like the poles in a fence) work as a suitable top rope anchor?

Anchor

That tree looks big enough to be an anchor on its own, given its alive, healthy, and deeply rooted.

Probably a double fishermans but really it makes little difference. Overhand on a bight, figure 8 follow through, double fishermans, anything would do.

1-2 tree would make a good anchor.

Tree of that size (assuming it's healthy), and with that cord, is probably fine alone. Add another locker for your master point. Another option is wrap 3 pull 2.

But my main question is what knot to tie in the rope itself to make it a loop. And in this photo, that knot is on the other side of the tree, out of view.

That is a frightening question, which was already answered.

Any of these knots will work, just leave longer tails that the photos.

fig 8

overhand

double fisherman

Thank you!

Eric G. wrote:That is a frightening question, which was already answered.

I'm going to take an anchor class in a few days. But I was curious about this photo.

46&2,
Definitely, take a class, get John Longs Anchors & knots book...
And Freedom of the Hills....( your milage may vary)
you need to check in at the MP & you tube how to climb,
or beginner threads or whatever they are called
threads, though will not teach you
You need to get a bunch of time out with a competent climber to show you a lot of stuff.

I am not trying to be snarky !
Not giving you grief at all...

So yes good that you understand redundant anchors, and of course the ' master point'
Should extend to Over the edge....

Good that you are,

'cause this still applies....

Eric G. wrote:That is a frightening question, which was already answered.

I'm still, puzzled by most of the responses though,

Redundancy, is not just adding a second locker....

Bookmark this web site for knot questions.
www.animatedknots.com

Michael Schneider wrote:Good that you are, 'cause this still applies.... I'm still, puzzled by most of the responses though, Redundancy, is not just adding a second locker....

Personally, I would want two of these anchors. Each on their own tree. Not just one. That is redundancy in my mind. But what do I know.

To answer your separate question, assuming that tree and cord are in good shape, I'd be fine anchoring off it. (Though as the biner is laying on flat ground, I'd probably be looking for a way to extend it - strength wise though it's fine.) As for the posts of a fence - that would really depend on the fence, how strong the fence posts are, and how they are anchored into the ground. Based on your knot question, I'd suggest getting more experience under your belt before making any judgment calls on fence posts.

Have fun in your class!

add a biner and its bomber.

double fisherman or overhand (two together) to connect the cord together.

Em Cos wrote:To answer your separate question, assuming that tree and cord are in good shape, I'd be fine anchoring off it. (Though as the biner is laying on flat ground, I'd probably be looking for a way to extend it - strength wise though it's fine.) As for the posts of a fence - that would really depend on the fence, how strong the fence posts are, and how they are anchored into the ground. Based on your knot question, I'd suggest getting more experience under your belt before making any judgment calls on fence posts. Have fun in your class!

There's a local cliff here in SF where at the top, there are two fences running parallel to each other, about 8 inches apart. Metal posts are anchored into the rock and concrete. They are solid. I figured you could build one anchor off one fence cross member, and a second anchor off the other. These are the kind of fences you'd find in a national park or something that are installed deep into the rock and then concrete'd in.

FourT6and2 wrote: Personally, I would want two of these anchors. Each on their own tree. Not just one. That is redundancy in my mind. But what do I know.

Good question - if a tree is large and healthy, you can think of it as redundant as each root is a separate point where the tree is anchored into the ground. If you have any doubts about the health or stability of the tree, honestly I wouldn't anchor to it at all, I'm not sure having a second healthy tree in the anchor system will be much comfort to me if the first unhealthy tree falls on my head.

The one situation where I can imagine I would use more than one tree in my anchor system is if both/all trees look healthy and stable, but they are on the small side and I'd want to distribute the load. But even then I would choose to steer clear of that situation entirely if possible, so even then it might only be in a "must rap now and this is all I've got" situation.

That being said, there's nothing inherently unsafe about anchoring to two (or three, or four) healthy, large trees. If you've got enough anchor material, plenty of time on your hands, and it makes you feel better, go for it.

ETA: I'd sooner anchor off one good tree than 2 fence posts, but I may be imagining a different fence than you are imagining. Spend some time with experienced climbers, and you'll be more comfortable making these decisions with more experience under your belt.

FourT6and2 wrote: Personally, I would want two of these anchors. Each on their own tree. Not just one. That is redundancy in my mind. But what do I know.

I prefer the Figure Eight Bend/Flemish Bend. It's easy to untie after being weighted. Double Fisherman can be a pain to untie, but it works. Make sure there's some tail with both knots. Dressed, and stressed.

The doubled cord, with a masterpoint, and 2 biners creates redundancy.

A living, well-rooted, stout tree is often more than enough. Judge wisely.

Jfriday1 wrote:add a biner and its bomber. double fisherman or overhand (two together) to connect the cord together.

Actually , that response is terrifying...
Yes of course two lockers is redundant at the master point...That was covered .

As to fence posts,
The depth and strength, can only be assumed....
You're probably okay, but ...
If you must try this keep the anchor as low on the posts as possible
Use 4 not just 2 and get the length right, so that you do not or can not shock load the anchor
This means stay directly below the master point ( the plumb line, not off to a side)
do not climb above it ( the master point)
Save up and hire a guide from Bob Gains' outfit ..in JTree, Vertical adventures... I'm pretty sure...
Paging mr Gordon... Todd ... Ya out there for this one?

Hey Michael C - Watchung Foever!,

Overengineering is often substituted for redundancy. When you belay, you are trusting your partner's life to a single locking carabiner. The reason for adding a second locker to this anchor is that as a top rope anchor, it will be out of sight, so the second locker helps prevent weird things from happening due to the anchor shifting or stupid people messing with your gear.

You could also add a surgeon's knot to this anchor to prevent it moving and wearing the tree bark.

As tied (not extending to the edge of the cliff) this looks like one component of a larger anchor, even though that tree is big enough on its own.

Owen Witesman wrote:Overengineering is often substituted for redundancy. When you belay, you are trusting your partner's life to a single locking carabiner. The reason for adding a second locker to this anchor is that as a top rope anchor, it will be out of sight, so the second locker helps prevent weird things from happening due to the anchor shifting or stupid people messing with your gear. You could also add a surgeon's knot to this anchor to prevent it moving and wearing the tree bark. As tied (not extending to the edge of the cliff) this looks like one component of a larger anchor, even though that tree is big enough on its own.

I'm pretty sure this photo was just made to show an example. Nobody is climbing off the anchor pictured. But yes, I know in the "real world" the master end (with two biners opposite and opposed) would be extended out over the edge of the cliff and not laying on the ground. Or maybe as you guessed, it's just part of a larger anchor system.

FourT6and2 wrote: Personally, I would want two of these anchors. Each on their own tree. Not just one.

What materials are you planning on building this anchor with? What is shown in the picture?

Are the fence posts far back from the edge? Will you be making two of the above picture and connect someway to a masterpoint?

Is there anything else to back up the fence posts with?

There may be a more simple approach if we could get an idea of what the environment looks like where you plan on building this top rope anchor.

If you have all that gear already... go for it, but you can simplify the whole setup with one static rope and a couple of locking carabiners - fence posts aside.

Best to find someone who knows what they are doing so they can show you properly.