PAS pissing match

I think a PAS is mainly for single pitch cragging IMO. I've tried using it for long routes but found it wasn't very efficient, however I still bring a multi-purpose piece of cord if I ever needed to escape the belay and build another anchor, ascend to the leader, etc.

On longer routes, I'm building an anchor and clove hitching myself to the master point. The second climbs up to my anchor, clips in on the shelf and I hand the sling over to him/her. He/she leads off and I belay from my harness like normal. The leader then builds and anchor and I climb up to them. Rinse, wash, repeat. It's easy enough to break down the anchor as a clove hitch is easy to untie even after being loaded.

I'm open to new ideas but for me personally, the above method is the most efficient.

I really liked this thread when it was called:
"Am I a steel boat anchor?"

While I think I am going to just use nylon slings....what about this? Nylon 7mm Blue water cord rated at 10.5kn. Obvious attachment to harness/ hangers via beaners/fig8 knotts.

Tom Sherman wrote:I really liked this thread when it was called: "Am I a steel boat anchor?"

i feel the same about sopaipillas from casa bonita

DavisMeschke wrote:The second climbs up to my anchor, clips in on the shelf and I hand the sling over to him/her. He/she leads off and I belay from my harness like normal.

Personally, I get a little weak in the knees about routinely belaying a leader off the shelf. I know that a resulting capsizing knot can be stopped by, say, a biner in the usual loop below. Still, I don't think the overall knot is sufficiently strong when loaded that way from a fall onto the belay.

Huh? He just described belaying the leader off his harness, as is standard practice. Do you mean that you don't feel comfortable clipping yourself into the anchor by the shelf?

Don't think I've ever belayed the leader from the shelf. Sounds like more trouble than it's worth and you probably couldn't give a decent belay even if you tried.

I belay the leader from my harness. Standard operating procedure. But I do clip the follower into the shelf after they've climbed up to my anchor. Safe, easy and not unnerving, unless the anchor is suspect. Guess that's not the standard elsewhere?

I was not referring to a belay device attached directly to the anchor.

Even if I am belaying off my harness, I am uncomfortable being attached to the anchor by a biner on the shelf for a lead belay ... at least until a good piece or two are placed on lead

I'm not the one attached to the shelf. I'm clipped into the masterpoint. I clip the follower onto the shelf when they arrive at the belay, then they lead off.

Thanks. My bad. I misread your comment.

When I know ill be rapping a pitch (single or multi-pitch), I use a double length sling, tied with an overhand knot on a bight in the middle to extend my rappel device from my harness (2 benefits-easier rappel and an uncomplicated way to anchor yourself to each rap station). I then use a purcell prussik (I always carry one as its uses are endless) to backup my rappel extension. But locking carabiners on the end of both and you will not die~! Can send you pictures if you would like.

Lightflight wrote:....what about this? Nylon 7mm Blue water cord rated at 10.5kn. Obvious attachment to harness/ hangers via beaners/fig8 knotts.

If you are girth hitching to your harness with smaller cord just make sure to inspect the wear points carefully each time of use. A lot of rubbing and friction can occur throughout a days outing.

Yes, that stuff is strong enough for the application you intend to use it for.

Lightflight wrote:While I think I am going to just use nylon slings....what about this? Nylon 7mm Blue water cord rated at 10.5kn. Obvious attachment to harness/ hangers via beaners/fig8 knotts.

https://www.mountainproject.com/v/2-bolt-anchor/110269527

Try a quad, it's the redundant version of what you're suggesting.

PMike wrote: Can send you pictures if you would like.

Please Do! I think that would be helpful for my understanding.

Stich wrote:I also like to walk on the beach, pick up a shell and ask myself, "What was this clam's maiden name?"

This thread is a solution in search of a problem.

The only thing you need is a thick 24" runner, your belay device, and two lockers. You clip in with one locker while the belay device and your other locker are loose in the system. Once your rappel is setup your cinch that system, weight it, taking weight off the other locker, and once approved, remove other locker.

Anything more than that is stupid bullshit. For the redundancy nannies you can clip the above mentioned into the top rope anchor. (That's an equalized, redundant system right?) Setup your rappel before removing your anchor.

Ultimately in climbing your going to be trusting your life to individual pieces of gear, which is different than trusting it to individual anchor points. Even the last system pictured/ proposed by lightflight, relies on trusting a single/ non redundant piece of climbing equipment. What about the single point on your belay loop, the single sling you extend your rappel with, the single locker in your belay device, your single belay device, any single strand of rope when rappelling, or the single end of any POS PAS girth hitched to you. All single points.

All this redundancy, needs to be replaced with rationality. And P.S. you don't need bolt-end lockers on your multi-leg TR anchor. You don't need redundancy on your redundancy.

PMike wrote:I use a double length sling, tied with an overhand knot on a bight in the middle to extend my rappel device from my harness.

^^^^ I know plenty of guys that do this and its a perfectly good/ safe way, to rappel and perfectly good way to over-complicate the system, introduce unnecessary knots, and make your partner's double-check extremely difficult. Not needed.

Sorry I am so bored at work today...

Keep it simple.

This thread makes me want to donate more to my local SAR

Matt Stroebel wrote: mountainproject.com/v/2-bol… Try a quad, it's the redundant version of what you're suggesting.

Complete overkill...

Stagg54 wrote: Complete overkill...

Isn't that what he asked for? I never said this was the best way, or an efficient way, this is a way to do it that is overly safe for someone in "noob status"

I probably should have mentioned that this isn't a replacement for a purcell, it's a replacement for the top two draws and you clip into it w/ a locking biner to clean.

In bigfeet's picture above^^^ ...
the last figure looks like he's reallllly enjoying himself ;)