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Gannett Peak/Wind River Range

Warbonnet · · Utah, India and Cambodia · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 630
Warbonnet · · Utah, India and Cambodia · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 630
Gary Stoker · · Fort Belvoir, VA · Joined Dec 2015 · Points: 215

Helpful picture Warbonnet, thanks!!

Warbonnet · · Utah, India and Cambodia · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 630

Gitrinec,

Wand instructions finalized. Three more beta pics, then am out of this forum.

Not into the back-and forth, and guilty of fomenting some of it myself.

You know why I've taken an interest in this string & the Winds, and that's all I need to say because you know why. Notwithstanding that, it's been great working with you on this and will, in my own way via professionals & their science work in the area on glaciers, will be somewhat able to track things -- not necessarily you but are pretty good at knowing who are on the glaciers cuz they work with the Forest Service & other government agencies specifically on Dinwoody arm. Are frequently asked to help report on parties.

BTW, they are seriously interested in and impressed with your mapping & navi skills. Would like to talk with at some point, share ideas & get reference you in their publications. But that will be your call; they won't do it unless you are interested.

You may run into a friend (will not name him here -- don't want him piled on too) with whom I spent 9 years in Titcomb & surrounding areas as backcountry Forest Service ranger back in the day. From Texas, so common ground for an intro to each other. Geologist, he assists with GPR studies on Dinwoody in winter, so may run into him.

Davis, same for you. Has red hair; only clue you need to ID him, would dig meeting you, give him my regards; have sort of lost track of him (so to speak).

Titcomb is great in summer, not my personal cup of tea to start the hard stuff, weather dependent always.

Davis: maybe spice up what you think of as only a SLOG on Gannett & knowing you are always looking for mixed, there are now 5 lines in southeast bowl of Gannett; years putting them up, unrecorded...will remain so.

Have to be there dead coldest in winter to even have a chance; topping off into waiting-to-slide upper bowl being the most very, very dangerous. Two of the 5 are rated: 2+ to 3, AI/WI 5+, M8 R; two others 3, AI/WI 5, M8, Rxxx (yes, three "x's) -- bring your big boy pants....if you don't have them now, you will. 5th rated "science fiction". TCUs, rack to 6, 10 pins (4 knife blades, 4 bugaboos, 4 angles to size 3. Almost no fixed gear; we retrieve. Do it, contact me via MP personal.

Will know you are on or near them if find stacked angles size 2-4, older 6" Leepers (best pin invented), one 4' snow stake jammed diagonally into one crack. Very thin.

FYI Davis, you & I were talking two diff things re: Titcomb. I was thinking way past Titcomb on approach; your comments focused on avi danger. Of course I agree, duh but neither was even thinking the same area for the same reasons.

No issue with that, nor your comment about it not looking like a skateboard cruise -- could not agree with you more. Climbers, & summer hikers look at a map, counters & compare it to Bonney, thinking Titcomb lakes must be a flat cruise. There are navigation problems in that area, esp in winter & esp. in whiteout -- you know that.

In my head during posts, I had lept way past you (unintentionally) & moved my head onto Bonney Pass when talking about climber's camps (where they are excellent, though can be exposed to wind, however, walls much higher & never completely snow covered.

time I will beat the dead horse; IMO, Bonney is best to head for, depending on strength, if 2 days to get there even, in order to gear up, hydrate, visually check all out.

Gitrinec, learned more from you than you think. IMO, learning is about listening to the questions (and separate from the chaff, the wheat. Learn one, do one, teach one as the Buddha taught.

From a fave cartoonist who's two characters (daddy ant, kid ant) say: "Geez dad, I wish I knew all the answers". Papa ant: "Big deal, try coming up with the questions." I usually have neither.

FYI, just last week had glaciologists friends just come off Gannett via route not done before, seriously out there, however, stopped here and there to check out objective hazards you pointed out on your maps. (One of the academic team's specialty is objective hazards on glaciers (from a glaciophysics viewpoint)).

Have very interesting stuff to report. If interested, contact me thru my MP address; not interested in the predictable flack I would get simply by mentioning their work.

Davis; am out of this forum after promised posts to Gitrinec, so won't be replying to anyone's posts. Wanna chat, only thru personal MP.

Gitrinec, if you take wands (crazy if don't, even with your GPS....that has its limits) and after wand post re: construction, can't find or are shocked by cost of Prismatic tape, let me know ASAP and will ship you some; have white, green & red, decreasing in luminosity.

FYI, am taking off for winter climb Denali in next three weeks, so will be mostly out of pocket but will check email in Anchorage and last stop, Talkeetna. If note from you, will reply.

You have this head-dialed, the confidence, strength & judgement to knock this thing off, but much more importantly, you know when the time comes to back off, often the most important ingredient in climbers doing the smart thing. I don't see you doing unsmart things.

Would enjoy getting a note from you via personal MP address when you return.

Travel well & safe.

Warbonnet

P.S. Thanx to my bros and sisters who added to this forum. See ya in the white land.

Bogdan Petre · · West Lebanon, NH · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 1,098

Only read first page of this post. Thought you might find some of these photos useful though:

Right after touching down on the glacer from Boney pass

Looking back from ridge below the big gendarme (can't remember the name) on the standard route to gannet. Note some crevasses

Crevasse on Sphinx glacier, which faces you as you descend from Bonney pass.

Mt Woodrow Wilson, the second and final cirque passed (on climbers left) on the approach from Boney pass to Gannett

They were taken in September 2012. The approach to Gannett didn't have anything major on it at the time (although there was one moulin), but there were crevasses in all the cirques above it (north of the approach, two of which are pictured, Sphinx and Woodrow Wilson) which give an idea of what may be possible. The ascent into the cirque leading up Gannett's main route may have had something like this going on, but I didn't get any pictures.

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but NOLS headquarters are in Lander, WY and they rent out gear last I checked. They may have a four season tent available. Stop by Lander Bar if in the area.

Good luck. Don't fuck up and die.

tim · · Boulder, CO · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 507

Holy beta! Gannet in winter makes the rupal face seem like kiddy shit!

Gary Stoker · · Fort Belvoir, VA · Joined Dec 2015 · Points: 215

Great pictures Bogdan P, thanks for the addition!

Warbonnet · · Utah, India and Cambodia · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 630
Bogdan P wrote:Only read first page of this post. Thought you might find some of these photos useful though.
Bogdan P, you didn’t need to read beyond the first page of the post to know how spot on these photos are.

This is not Rainer et al, but there are certain aspects of winter Gannett (or even summer) climbers should be aware of.

Could write a volume or two on what is going on in this area of the Dinwoody. The upper crevasse below Bonney (somewhat surprisingly comes & goes, given its size) is a major league contributor to the lubrication of this tongue of the Dinwoody, the creep rate of which is accelerating more than would be expected even with climate change but oddly so; not well understood.

This area is studied a lot because it has other peculiarities, inc. other objective hazards not typically present before the last 5 or so years.

As per post upstring, between 1958 and 1983, the reduction has been in the thickness of the (entire) Dinwoody rather than its surface area.

Deep ice coring in some glaciers have shown temperatures at the ice-rock bed interface to be elevated, meaning, the enormous ice mass itself has heated up. Somewhat hard for some to wrap their heads around.

Am rather sure this tongue of Dinwoody has not been cored but has been radar mapped; that does not directly correlate with lubrication-- not an expert in this particular discipline, so guessing). The work Gitrinec has done mapping the route caught the attention of glaciologists I know. Every clue helps.

In the same 25-year period, the glacier lost an average of 23.4 m (77 ft) in thickness. Radar mapping of 72 locations on the glacier resulted in an average thickness of 54 m (177 ft) and a maximum measured depth of 111 m (364 ft).

When navigating RT the area in your photo, it is easy to ignore the appliance and car size boulders in the background that not infrequently appear from outer space; eyes are usually on Gannett, the view and route but too many think this is an easy walk (which it sort of is, generally speaking).

Inexperienced glacier travelers conclude this tongue is w/o obvious objective hazards, however the debris in the background is typical of all cirques on the Dinwoody. In many cases, it is not just rockfall, rather huge cliff collapses. That said, the term "obvious objective hazards" is somewhat oxymoronic.

I have many photos of this area, different angles, all seasons but this particular one has a lot going on; I could really mark this up; some of it academic, other intel of use to climbers. Most climbers would take note of this photograph but difficult to imagine what it looks like in winter. On route, careful observation reveals some of what appear in your Sept. photo.

Presumably, you are sure of the date of this photo?

Bogdan P wrote:The approach to Gannett didn't have anything major on it at the time (although there was one moulin)
There was/is a lot going on, you just didn’t see -- or luckily didn't feel it – not a critical comment. Not one moulin; many more “washingmachiners” (my term, less scientific but a better visual).
Re: nothing “major”, the big splat “X” area is still hazardous, deceptively so….will spare the details....but compare it to most photos of this areas & can see signs of the overall footprint.

More moulins on their way and increasingly seen, particularly in flatter parts of the Dinwoody, point being “it ain’t over yet.” Years ago, crevasses in both the upper and lower field were larger and it’s easy to slog along thinking that there not any now, or not deep enough to be a problem. Wrong. It only takes one crevasse, a shallow one at that, to ruin one's day; don't need field of them.

Bogdan P wrote:”….. which gives an idea of what may be possible."
Reply to your phrase found at end of my comment; from the 1930's pulp fiction series “The Shadow”. Famous line: “Who knows what evil lurks (in the hearts of men)?", but a different spin may be illustrative i.e.,"Who knows what evil lurks that climbers just walked over?" (which incorrectly seems unlikely).

Again, this is not Rainier or similar; just smart to be auto-aware, all seasons and on all glaciers.

Climbers caught in white outs and/or ground blizzards have wandered way far climber’s left and found themselves in a world of hurt. Your photo nicely shows the flavor.

Some in this post think wanding is a waste, not needed, etc. I have another opinion and have overly belabored this issue in prior posts.

Bogdan P wrote:Good luck. Don't fuck up and die.
Gitrinec was the original poster of this forum and he’s headed to Gannet in April. He has this thing dialed even he’s not been on it but I know few, if any, are so prepared in terms of understanding the terrain and to a large extent, objective hazards; I think he has looked at every photo of this route and via his professional navigation experience, he has posted some outstanding work – publishable.

He’s probably safely climbed this in his head so many times that he knows every moulin and crevasse and has given them pet names. They probably know him even though they have not met, nor will they. They will simply move out of his way out of respect, and allow safe passage.

I emphasize this because it will essentially be a late winter trip; one cannot do enough recon of winter Gannett, typically underrated, and many in this post have confirmed that in text and photos. Wind's famous: "Winter never leaves the range".

To your last comment, all know that one can die without fucking up, yes, the cruel fate in the game.

Great photos Bogdan.

"The Shadow"; 1930's pulp fiction series, known for the line "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?" Analogy: "Who knows what evil in the forms of crevasses, moulins and other fun rides exist here?"
Warbonnet · · Utah, India and Cambodia · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 630
tim wrote:Holy beta! Gannet in winter makes the rupal face seem like kiddy shit!
Tim, I was thinking a combo of the Rupal Face & the Willis Wall. But not really.

You get only one successful chance at freezing to death and you sorta get to choose where that is.
Gary Stoker · · Fort Belvoir, VA · Joined Dec 2015 · Points: 215

Warbonnet I sent some PM's but dunno if you got them. I did pick up some of those Military surplus Denali's, I see that MSR has some extra parts kits you can get which I need and replacement straps. The bindings have removable rivets that have these metal rings that keep them on the shoes. The rails on the sides seem ok but might need some filing.

Bogdan Petre · · West Lebanon, NH · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 1,098
Warbonnet wrote: Presumably, you are sure of the date of this photo?


The date is definitely September 2012.

Regarding there being "nothing major" on the approach directly towards gannett, I should probably have said "nothing memorable to me".

I wouldn't necessarily have known what to look for though. I wasn't especially experienced at the time, so much so that I got benighted on Sphinx, bivied on a ledge, and walked down sphinx glacier (we traversed over from Dinwoody, sphinx glacier feeds into titcomb) at the crack of dawn the next day. I very distinctly heard the glacier snap somewhere and felt it move under me. Apropos,

Warbonnet wrote: There was/is a lot going on, you just didn’t see -- or luckily didn't feel it – not a critical comment.


Interesting experience all around.
Warbonnet · · Utah, India and Cambodia · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 630
Bogdan P wrote: The date is definitely September 2012.

Was sure you were sure – wasn’t challenging the date, rather, just wondering, thinking. My question was more rhetorical because I was sure I was there at the same time (September-ish) but was actually earlier.

Certainly because of the overall photo (which is great insofar as showing many things), the light emphasizes other details that are otherwise usually not seen, even with the bare naked eye, unless knowing where/when to look. Your photo is perfect.

Spent several hours pouring over it, comparing it to my zillion year photos (film, digital and mind pictures), still trying to figure out movement dynamics in a particular part of this area.

I understand why, where, how on vast majority of it over the years but the ‘splat’ giant “X” area (n your picture #2) has been more than curious as to “what evil lurks” & underlying dynamics. It's actually quite dangerous but a piercing glance into the obvious reveals much.

Have academic interests but also from a climber’s viewpoint because almost everyone hopscotches around this area RT climber’s right/left as if nothing going on. More dangerous, and understandably tempting to do so cuz looks like a shortcut; some on skis take a route over the “splat” (which under many conditions looks like a white carpet WITHOUT “things”). Your photo shows why it is not a short cut either way, RT.

Did you get up close and personal to this big splat “X” and if so, did you get a good look into the center of the maw? If so, did/could you see bedrock (or more likely jumbled up rocks, maybe a few mud cones but may be guesstimated to be at about bedrock level?) Maybe hard to know w/o precise maps, radar mapping info, etc. but just trying to get a general sense of how far down you could see, if you got near it enough to peek in. At times when wide open, have rappelled into the "spider legs" from center "X", 3-4 raps, just to look at the cobalt blue but never felt we were near bedrock.

Bogdan P wrote: Regarding there being "nothing major" on the approach directly towards gannett, I should probably have said "nothing memorable to me".
Yeah, I know what you meant; again, rhetorical, not meant as critical nor contrary, rather, informative to forum. That’s the sleeper Q on that Dinwoody tongue, what may look like merely a white golf course. But “what’s going on?” Thoughts of Van Morrison’s song: “It’s So Quiet in Here.”

“Nothing memorable” is good as you know and summer Gannett is usually that, notwithstanding texting on your cellphone not a good idea while moving around.

Bogdan P wrote: I wouldn't necessarily have known what to look for though. I wasn't especially experienced at the time, so much so that I got benighted on Sphinx, bivied on a ledge, and walked down sphinx glacier (we traversed over from Dinwoody, sphinx glacier feeds into titcomb) at the crack of dawn the next day. "


Love your phrasing “benighted”….been there, I understand, glad it’s past tense.

Bogdan P wrote: I very distinctly heard the glacier snap somewhere and felt it move under me. Apropos, interesting experience all around"


Bogdan P, don’t know about you but I think hearing, feeling glacier movement is one of the most amazing experiences to be had (assuming such “movement” is not large Empire State Building size blocks visiting, esp. the uninvited types). Upstring, I confessed that one simple reason I got into winter camping, expeditions and winter climbing was/is because I just hate mosquitoes. Hate ‘em.

Good job bivvying on The Sphinx; am sure was memorable.

Nothing like a trip specifically to camp (safely) on active glaciers, listen to them at night, feel the movement, try to correlate the weird, indescribable sounds they make with something we think we must have heard before, something familiar ….but the only thing familiar with or describable is…the glaciers themselves. Not a science fiction movie soundtrack nor IT messing around comes close to the sounds owned by the Big Frozen.

That humanoids have inexorably doomed them, too late now, I applaud them as they continue to grind, chew, flatten, shove, crash, piss off, deconstruct, swallow, insult, smash, scream at, engulf, crush, scare, rip apart everything in their way…while they still can....they deserve at least that.

Sounds like you might agree (guessing) that anyone who has not experienced the quiet, not-so -quiet, eerie sound of deep ice moving, should not deny themselves the wonder and beauty of listening to the eighty trillion billion piece symphony below and “the snap”, a perfect word you used.

Will not have the experience by busying oneself, scurrying, climbing over, around, on top, moving one direction, another, then another, always "destination bound", here and there, unless time taken to stay on the top, nights in a row, laid flat out, quiet, feeling “the snap.”

Will.Never.Ever.Forget.It.
Warbonnet · · Utah, India and Cambodia · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 630
Gitrinec wrote:Warbonnet I sent some PM's but dunno if you got them. I did pick up some of those Military surplus Denali's, I see that MSR has some extra parts kits you can get which I need and replacement straps. The bindings have removable rivets that have these metal rings that keep them on the shoes. The rails on the sides seem ok but might need some filing.
Yes, I did get them but oddly, they disappeared - send again.

Excellent re: the military Denali's. If any Qs re: these snowshoes, we can chat about it.

Did they come with the optional, removable, longer floater tails?
Gary Stoker · · Fort Belvoir, VA · Joined Dec 2015 · Points: 215

Yes they luckily came with the longer tails and they have the heel lift.

Bogdan Petre · · West Lebanon, NH · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 1,098
Warbonnet wrote: Did you get up close and personal to this big splat “X” and if so, did you get a good look into the center of the maw? If so, did/could you see bedrock
I didn't but I did look into several deeper crevasses and never saw bedrock. They were pretty black down there.

Regarding the sound, ya, that was amazing. Nothing else like it. The opening of gaston rebuffats starlight and storm has a very evocative description of these experiences that really resonates with me. If you don't know it then maybe check it out. First two paragraphs of the book, re the experience of nightfall below the north face of te grand jorasses.
Warbonnet · · Utah, India and Cambodia · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 630
Gitrinec wrote:Warbonnet I sent some PM's but dunno if you got them. I did pick up some of those Military surplus Denali's, I see that MSR has some extra parts kits you can get which I need and replacement straps. The bindings have removable rivets that have these metal rings that keep them on the shoes. The rails on the sides seem ok but might need some filing.
Yes, did get your PM's; buried in work but will reply soonest.

In the meantime, April vs. May is the yin and yang. May has longer days, more sun (presumably but definitely not necessarily), however, "longer days, more sun" is not necessarily an advantage -- can be the opposite, esp. if any tech ice cuz that helps "glue" the rock missiles.

One doesn't need to be a technical ice climber to experience rock/icefall -- can appear like Superman from the sky.

Trail in from Elkhart always a crap shoot in that near-transition season period. Note photo posted above: post holing, snowshoes, skiis, elephants? Might need all of the above, but on the safe side, one would expect the trail (not the tech route past Bonney) to deteriorate. Weather dependent, could be the opposite.

Underestimated, after descending Bonney & looking climber's left, what looks like avalanche paths above are exactly that. Several photo posts show runouts but can only see the edge. I wouldn't worry about them unless avi conditions are obviously bad in which case you can scoot climber's right, skirt upper crevasse field climber's right, then angle northwest to gain the main snowfield route.

As you know, if skirt upper crevasse field climber's right but keep working down the Dinwoody w/o making a northwest jog, you will find yourself in seriously bad, dangerous territory.

Re: weather patterns, look at temp profiles in MP, maybe Summit Post? Have not looked recently but I don't think the winter lows are that diff in late April, early May. It's all damn cold but it only lasts until you warm up.

Those who have been in that area all seasons know that storms (rain, snow, hail, everything in between) can brew up quickly and if on east side of the divide in that particular area (which you will be), sometimes difficult to see/feel/divine what is really coming.

That part of the divide is (pardon the phrase) the perfect storm in that the west face of Gannett & up/down the immediate range is (simply stated) a big "wall"; storms love slamming into such things, one colossal test of which one is toughest.

Screaming wind does not necessarily mean storm; read the clouds, then your warranties on all the new equipment you bought for the trip.

Basic answer: I don't think there is enough of a swing in the seasonal range you inquired about to make a bit of difference in gear you take. The many photo posts by forum members says it all: winter never leaves the Wind River Range.

Warbonnet
Warbonnet · · Utah, India and Cambodia · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 630
tim wrote:Holy beta! Gannet in winter makes the rupal face seem like kiddy shit!
Tim, as per post following yours re: Rupal Face & mine that added Willis Wall to the mix, I can assure everyone involved with or following this post that the pic below will NOT be found on winter Gannett because Gannett does not have green grass on it in winter.

Other than that, Rupal, Willis & Gannett have the following object in common (with the two prior nightmare routes having the most & worst).

Warbonnet comment: This is not found on winter Gannett route because green grass is not present. Other than that....
Warbonnet · · Utah, India and Cambodia · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 630
Bogdan P wrote: I didn't but I did look into several deeper crevasses and never saw bedrock. They were pretty black down there. Regarding the sound, ya, that was amazing. Nothing else like it. The opening of gaston rebuffats starlight and storm has a very evocative description of these experiences that really resonates with me. If you don't know it then maybe check it out. First two paragraphs of the book, re the experience of nightfall below the north face of the grand jorasses.
Borden P, was a really dumb Q I asked re: whether you got a good look at the main "maw". Certainly not going to see bedrock (but sometimes elsewhere can actually see it); mostly dirt, rock piles, remains of Republican prez candidates who just dropped out.

Thanks for the reminder of Gaston Rebuffat's "Starlight and Storm". Read the book long ago but don't recall the part you refer to....will scuba dive into storage locker this weekend to retrieve.

Have not spent serious time looking for sound recordings of glacier movement but certainly they are out there, likely in the science community. I have glaciologist, geo-heads, etc. involved with climate change & glaciers, etc.; will ask.

If anyone knows of such recordings, am highly interested in obtaining cc:s if possible.
Warbonnet · · Utah, India and Cambodia · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 630
Warbonnet · · Utah, India and Cambodia · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 630

This is how subtle ... and dangerous....crevasse areas can be.
First pic is Amy McCarthy shown just below North Face of Gannett 1994
Second pic is from Wikipedia showing almost identical shot of North Face of Gannett with open crevasses (season/year unknown).

Compare these photos with those immediately upstring of these to compare subtleties in terrain.

Amy McCarthy Wind River Range ski trip; North Face Gannett Peak in background 1994

North Face Gannett Peak, Wind River Range, Wyoming. Note: this picture is taken near the identical spot Amy McCarthy is standing.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Wyoming, Montana, Dakotas
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