Rainier Advice

I'm looking at taking an AAI or NOLS alum Glacial Mountaineering Course this summer, to those with more experience than me: will I be set for Rainier immediately after said course?

I've spent the last three summers guiding youth backpacking trips on easy mountains in the Sawatch Range of the Rockies near Leadville, CO, so I've logged my backcountry/multiday trip time. I've also done my share of semi-technical mountaineering (class 3/4) on 13ers like Pacific Peak and 14ers like North Maroon Peak, Wilson, and El Diente to name a few.

Doing all the 14ers would be great, however I'm no peak-bagger and am continually trying to push towards my goal of getting up Denali in the next four years. Rainier is the first major step towards that goal.

Thanks for any confirmation/advice you may have for me! This website has been a great resource over the last few years for this Arkansas boy with a dream.

After having done about half the 14ers in CO (similar to the ones you've done), being comfortable with roped climbing and self-rescue, and being comfortable with winter travel, I felt fine doing the DC unguided with a team of 3 after having taken the Crevasse Rescue course through Colorado Mountain School with my team.
We did the DC route on a weekend in July, so we were by no means the only ones on the mountain, and route-finding was not a problem (wanded trench, anyone?). Know your team members and their skills and limits. Practice together, even just simple walking up a hill roped together.
If you're looking for a route harder or less-traveled than the DC, or a different season, then that's a different question.

Also just to clarify... I do in fact know how to spell Mount Rainier

Originally started this thread on my phone while waiting in line at the bank. Probably a bad idea since now at first glance this looks another rednecked "how do I climb the Everest mountain" type of post. Sorry, I'm not as big of an idiot as the thread heading would imply.

Being newish to forums, is there any way for me to edit that headline?

I'm assuming that Disappointment Cleaver is the route through Camp Muir?

Liberty Ridge would be my first choice, since from what I've read the DC is pretty trafficked. Nothing wrong with that, I've just gotten used to avoiding standard routes and loving some isolation. It's also a pretty line. Does anyone have any comments on that route?

DC is the route that goes through Camp Muir, yes. And yes, it does see the most traffic. Did that in 2014, and the Emmons Winthrop in 2015. EW sees significantly less traffic, and the route was certainly more interesting, so you might look at that.

Liberty Ridge is a whole different kind of route, requiring a much larger skill set. How are you for leading AI3, at 13000+ ft, in a storm, etc.?

Recommend you spend some time researching routes on Rainier. More people around isn't necessarily a bad thing for your first glacier travel climb. If you're planning on doing Denali in ~4 years, you'll have plenty of time to find other glacier climbs with less people on them.

Liberty ridge is a step up from the basic routes up Rainier - it's been the scene of many epics from experienced climbers. If you're going for your first route on a big glaciated mountain, Liberty Ridge will be a stretch. Yes, the DC is well used, but there are other moderate routes that would get you to the top without too many crowds - the Emmonds glacier route, even Gib ledges if you wanted to do something slightly harder without going as hard as Liberty ridge. Sorry if I spelled something wrong, it's been about 10 years since I lived out there..

If I end up taking that 7-day glacial mountaineering (including crevasse rescue) course on Baker, would Liberty Ridge or Emmons Winthrop be too big of a jump?

I'm not worried about the altitude, as you know Colorado has a lot of that. I've been caught in a whiteout on class 4 snow in late spring with a more experienced partner, and from what I've read the LR can be kept to class 4 snow unless you do a specific WI3 ice variation.

The Gibraiter Ledges looks like a good middle ground, but "40-50 degree snow chute" sounds like I would be traveling 30+ hours to do the Cascades version of the Holy Cross couloir. Is that right or am I overanalyzing?

I totally agree with scaling up, as a college student I just can't afford many trips that far NW, so I'm trying to figure out what I can handle and still get a challenge out of a trip out to the Cascades.

Does anyone have experience with AAI? I've taken a NOLS WFR course and loved it, however AAI offers multiple trips throughout the summer and NOLS just does one.

Don't do Liberty Ridge as your first, unguided trip up a glaciated mountain. That's just asking for trouble.

Edit: You might consider Rainier Mountain Guides as a choice for schools.

rmiguides.com/technical

I wouldn't even consider doing Rainier unguided without first taking a glacial mountaineering/crevasse rescue course. The ones I'm looking at would both include a trip up Baker. Would Liberty Ridge be too much for a second trip on a glaciated peak by someone with experience in most other mountaineering areas?

RMI the famous Viesturs standard setting guide service so of course I'd consider doing something through them, but do they offer any non-one day schools?

fishermrtn wrote:I wouldn't even consider doing Rainier unguided without first taking a glacial mountaineering/crevasse rescue course. The ones I'm looking at would both include a trip up Baker. Would Liberty Ridge be too much for a second trip on a glaciated peak by someone with experience in most other mountaineering areas?

I think it would be too much, if you are the most experienced person on the team.

^ awesome, that's exactly what I needed to hear. Any suggestions? So far other posters have mentioned Emmons and Gibralter as alternates to the DC. Is one or the other better for my situation?

fishermrtn wrote: RMI the famous Viesturs standard setting guide service so of course I'd consider doing something through them, but do they offer any non-one day schools?

They offer one-day courses, but that's not enough for you to be self-sufficient. Coupled with their Crevasse Rescue course, this would be a good start:

rmiguides.com/mt-rainier/mo…

Edit: They offer multiple-day courses. Look at their website.

Lib ridge is a pretty bold climb. For example (not chest beating) I have done Denali, Mt. Frances SW Ridge and Bacon and Eggs in the AK range, and Lib ridge still gives me the shivers...

All you need for many Rainier routes is good glacier travel skills, mountain weather experience, and snow climbing experience. You should be fine after a glacier travel course plus a couple days of practice.

If you don't want to do the DC route but still want to stay near the core climbing area the Fuhrer Finger is a moderate snow climb, earlier season route.

Emmons has just as many people as the DC, and Gib ledges is more of a winter climb due to rockfall.

Feel free to PM with more specific questions.

Keep in mind as well that conditions in recent years have varied huge amounts from season to season. For example the Emmons route in 2013 and the Emmons route in 2015 were vastly different challenges. I would highly recommend taking a course based in the Cascades if you are going to take one. The challenges of the Wasatch and the San Juans are very very different than the challenges on a glaciated peak.

That being said, the DC route is pretty much a sidewalk when its in good shape. As long as you have basic understanding of glaciated mountain travel, the hardest part is the altitude. Much like the Butt Route on Denali, which is pretty much a sidewalk at 6000m.

I probably can try to answer your question based on my own experience this summer. I soloed the DC (with approval) after having done a NOLS mountaineering course in the Waddington Range the previous year. Shortly before Rainier I also soloed Baker, Shuksan and Glacier Peak but the NOLS course was the only time I received direct instruction. If you ask lots of questions on the course, practice all the necessary skills as much as possible and are good at teaching yourself things I think you will have no problem as Rainier is not insurmountable if you respect the mountain and prepare appropriately. In hindsight I think an AAI course might be better than a NOLS course for learning just mountain skills (as NOLS teaches lots of abstract leadership skills too) but in my situation the leadership aspect made it easier for me to get the course paid for so your mileage may vary.

I'd definitely recommend getting more independent glacier and alpine experience before trying something like Liberty Ridge (Frostbite Ridge on Glacier Peak, North Ridge on Mt Baker would both be stepping stones in terms of difficulty and altitude). It's a whole different beast. Fuhrer Finger would probably make a great alternative for a straightforward but less trafficked climb, but make sure that you plan on hitting it early season, which may vary greatly based on the years snow conditions. This past year the melt out was way ahead of schedule and the DC would have been very difficult for me to do in mid July had there not been a wanded (and very indirect) path to the top and ladders over some of the crevasses, the Ingram glacier was very broken up. Trying to do Fuhrer Finger after mid May might have been iffy based on how little snow I saw elsewhere.

Best of luck, and if you take the time to prepare and understand the risks, don't let others scare you out of it. I was once a poor North Carolina boy without any mountaineering experience and this summer I climbed all the peaks in the Cascades over 10,000 feet plus a few others, solo and for the first time, so don't let your geography keep you from your dreams. The things that are most dangerous to you are the things that you know nothing about so gain as much experience as possible first and you'll be fine.

We climbed the Lib Ridge during the first week of June 2013. It was awesome. It is also committing, and the Carbon was interesting to say the least. I believe it was a low snow year, and we had to climb 8 60m pitches of ice to the top of the liberty cap area. There was no way around it. I would not recommend going up there without 3-4 days of strong high pressure.

I would not recommend it as your first route up Rainier. If you do the Emmons first, you will know the way down and can plug your waypoints in. The emmons/wonthrop had some challenges with big holes and it is sort of a long way down. To put it into perspective, we left Thumb Rock at 1am, went to the summit, and went down to Schurman in about 14 hours. I thought surface conditions were pretty good.

Call me if you want beta, I'm happy to share.

Sorry, after I read that Liberty ridge was your first choice I was laughing too hard to respond. Then I read the post that says that Liberty ridge is a step up from the DC.
Holy shit, have either of you even looked at any beta on rainier? Just because you've been to 14k feet in CO doesn't mean you're ready for a big mountain.
OP, after reading your experience, get your glacier travel/rescue skills down. Then start with the basics, the emmons or the DC. And for te love of god please don't use te guides wands as your route finding skills. If climbing day stays bluebird it'll work, but you're on a 14k foot peak on the Pacific Ocean basically. Weather changes literally in the blink of an eye.
Liberty Ridge, holy shit

^ yeah I get all that. Seems like the consensus on Liberty Ridge is that while each individual difficulty may not be too bad on it's own, all of them together make a pretty intense route. I wasn't being cocky, but reading that the thing was "class 3/4 snow" if following the easiest variation undersold the route's difficulty I guess.

As far as your comment about Colorado people going to 14,000, I understand that the "Front Rangers", as they get called in some of the towns I've spent a lot of my time in, walk up Mount Evans, claim the elevation, and act tough. I've tested myself physically up there, I'm more worried about falling in a crevasse and dying.

I really appreciate all the advice from everyone, especially the offers for PMs or other follow ups. I'll probably take some of you up on that. Thanks!

short answer: YES

Kyle Tarry wrote:[quote]FYI, as per the 2014 NPS report, 74% of climbs go up DC, and only 13% go up Emmons. nps.gov/mora/planyourvisit/…

The guide services switch over to the Emmons once the road opens and the conditions are better than the dc. Varies every year, but the Emmons season is much shorter than the DC.

Road to paradise being open all year vs. road to white river opening in May/June is a huge part of that difference in numbers.

When the Emmons is open and in condition there will be a hundred plus climbers up on the route.

After a course you are probably fine for route like the DC and Emmons which see the most traffic on the hill. If you want to get away from the crowds and see a nice part of the hill consider Furher Finger or Kautz Glacier (one can go up and over on these routes and my preferred climbing style). A route like the Gib Ledges will most likely be out of shape by the time you are there.

LIberty Ridge is a good route but now requires significant glacier travel skills (in addition to the skills for the route itself). The Carbon breaks up much early these days than in years past. As folks have said plenty of climbers have bit off more than could chew on Liberty. I have personally seen that after topping out on another route.

Get a copy of Gaitor's book on Rainier and read it. THe first half of the book is for climbers coming to Rainier for the first time.