The Erik Sloan ethics thread

Jeff Edge wrote: Brother Alexey, I appreciate your personal attacks, but please read my posts again. I have never expressed support for what Sloan may or may not have bolted. My only goal in this argument is to play devil's advocate, and the impish pleasure of policing other people's logic. You said there was "no tolerance" on bolted cracks in Yosemite. But, clearly there is tolerance for it, because I could immediately think of five or six examples. I'm not saying all cracks should be bolted, or that people can bolt cracks whenever they want. I'm just pointing out that your statement was incorrect, in hopes of bringing more hospitality to the discussion.

Jeff, I apologize for personal attack, but what I said was- with this logic you can find the base for everything. And Sloan precedent [if nobody stop him] will bring more carpet bolters in the Valley

GTS wrote: Exhibit A with photos! bigwalls.com/forum2/index.p… Explain this sh*t show.

Are you shitting me, that's your proof? He bolted a variation and that's the problem? I don't know what the nosebleed is about this guy but you haven't made your case. Like others have said, show proof that he added bolts or cut trails or fricken whatever. If he did those things he's wrong, dead wrong. But if you can't then just stop this crap. Man, this just sucks.

This thread is LAME. It has no course of resolve. I don't know why Erik or the few others that actually have a significant history in the Valley have humored any discussion here.

It's easy, shallow, and weak to blow hot air online and from afar, hang-out, sit on your thumbs, and stoke the fire.

If you disagree with someone or something, host a local climbers' meeting (an actual face-to-face discussion, gasp!) and take action (If you're not local and this stuff really is important to you, get on a fucking plane). Otherwise, your panties are wadded over something you've invested little energy in. Stop.

A good steward does more than rant over errant bolts on Mountain Project.

chris magness wrote:This thread is LAME. It has no course of resolve. I don't know why Erik or the few others that actually have a significant history in the Valley have humored any discussion here. It's easy, shallow, and weak to blow hot air online and from afar, hang-out, sit on your thumbs, and stoke the fire. If you disagree with someone or something, host a local climbers' meeting (an actual face-to-face discussion, gasp!) and take action (If you're not local and this stuff really is important to you, get on a fucking plane). Otherwise, your panties are wadded over something you've invested little energy in. Stop. A good steward does more than rant over errant bolts on Mountain Project.

chris magness, if your panties are not wadded over errant bolts why you are posting here ?
Just barking to the moon?
Devaluating this tread intentionally , or just piss on participants for fun -playing good for Sloan. He really does not want to discuss anything, but to promote his coming book.
And if you read the tread you can find that it was local climbers' meetings with Sloan 10 years ago and many after and he was still doing the same no matter how people communicate with him personally or web.
BTW- I do not see anything wrong with web discussion compare with personal meeting if people have brain which can comprehend.
I think the goal of this tread is not to change Sloan bolting "stewardship" ( it would be nice, but unfortunately probability of it is now close to 0) , but make people aware what he is doing. This should affect success/not-success of his coming Select coming book. This should affect people who want to chose him as a mentor for climbing.
Added: Tread which started as "The Erik Sloan ethics thread" show that he disregard and break many common climbing rules which was settled in YV . This bring a question - is he is a right person to compile and prepare Select climbing guide? And next question- do you want to get this book?

I thought the whole point of MP is to harass people you will probably never meet--over the internet from the comfort of your couch with a (hopefully) alcoholic beverage in your hand...OK back to work.

Spiny Norman wrote: Unsubstantiated and false. Thanks for making it clear how you roll, K Weber.

It's totally common practice for trolls like you to have multiple accounts. Go ahead and deny it like Lance Armstrong.

Alexey wrote: Just barking to the moon? Devaluating this tread intentionally , or just piss on participants for fun -playing good for Sloan. He really does not want to discuss anything, but to promote his coming book. And if you read the tread you can find that it was local climbers' meetings with Sloan 10 years ago and many after and he was still doing the same no matter how people communicate with him personally or web. BTW- I do not see anything wrong with web discussion compare with personal meeting if people have brain which can comprehend.

My remarks were objective. I am, in fact, a supporter of traditional ethics. Ten years? And you haven't pulled his bolts? Exactly my point.

In regard to Erik's book: I already own it. Writing guide books is more a labor of love than anything, as the monetary return is not reflective of the time investment; Erik's book is well done. He isn't getting rich on this.

I'm also looking forward to the new Reed book and spending more time in the Valley.

Take away all the Supertopo folks who only came here to trash ES in this thread(among other threads) would have been dead a long long time ago.

Lets see, over at the taco everyone loves the other guidebook authors and would cup their balls in a nanosecond. This quote is great-

Alexey wrote: This bring a question - is he is a right person to compile and prepare Select climbing guide? And next question- do you want to get this book?

BTW, when is the other book going to be ready for the masses to get their hands on?

Christian George wrote: You make a lot of authoritative statements about other people you have never met. I've done El Cap with Erik. He uses a Hilti in a small haul bag wrapped with a foam pad to muffle the noise. I don't love ANY guide book author, and wouldn't cup another man's' balls unless you put a gun to my head. And... You are keeping this thread alive with your hollow protestations based in ignorance. If you want a topic to die, don't bump it with more jaw flapping.

oh, the humanity. It just keeps adding up, gang banging one guy over shit that has been done by hundreds, if not thousands of folks, in the YV area.

the hypocrisy of the haters is overwhelming

chris magness wrote: My remarks were objective. I am, in fact, a supporter of traditional ethics. Ten years? And you haven't pulled his bolts? Exactly my point. In regard to Erik's book: I already own it. Writing guide books is more a labor of love than anything, as the monetary return is not reflective of the time investment; Erik's book is well done. He isn't getting rich on this. I'm also looking forward to the new Reed book and spending more time in the Valley.

You own his (and Roger Putnam) Bigwall guide. I agree that the book is very good. ES's YV free climbing book has not yet been released (unless you somehow got it early). The Reid book project has been taken over by other authors.

Christian George wrote: Please elucidate what you mean by hypocrisy.

Erik already covered that subject in more than one of his well written replies, as usual the haters ignored it and kept on pounding the keyboards.

imgur.com/9aSPXCX

Super topo zealots do much the same thing as religious zealots: make idiots into freedom fighters. I don't know Eric personally, but now, if I meet him, I am going to have to ask for his autograph on my Hilti! Just for standing up to the crusty old nazi's without anger he gains my respect. Hey crusty freaks, go back to your super hovel, I think old Sloan knows how you feel now.

J Q wrote:Super topo zealots do much the same thing as religious zealots: make idiots into freedom fighters. I don't know Eric personally, but now, if I meet him, I am going to have to ask for his autograph on my Hilti! Just for standing up to the crusty old nazi's without anger he gains my respect. Hey crusty freaks, go back to your super hovel, I think old Sloan knows how you feel now.

I've never seen a guy stay so calm amid attacks by the tradiban, I know I wouldnt. I'd have my batteries on the charger daily, this is a point I dont think the haters get.

Yo Gang,

I just spend 20 minutes a day in the morning on this internet stuff, so sorry if I don't respond to your post specifically - I just try to sift through the previous days pages and respond to a couple salient points.

I'm sorry that everyone is continuing to be so negative on here. Sheesh, it's like we have a bunch of republicans and democrats in a small room, haha.

Schuyler Collet bolted the route Yama Shama at Sentinel Creek, and from what I've seen and heeard, here in Yosemite from people who climbed the route, the route has been super popular. It's not a crack, it's face climbing. I really don't climb 5.11 so couldn't even toprope it. Sorry Alexey, when one of the administrators of this site starts making uneducated observations about other people I couldn't help myself but to fan your fire flames. Why hold onto the burning coals of your ethical conclusions? Aren't you the only one being burned? I don't accept yours or anyone else's negativity in this thread. You keep it, I have enough of that stuff ;) If you want to talk honestly about something like a new route you saw on a Sentinel Creek topo, then start a thread and ask who put the route up - would you have talked the way you did on this thread if you were approaching someone who you didn't know about a new route? I hope not. Especially because your heated conclusions were totally false. It is not a bolted crack. I did not put up the climb or even top rope it, etc.

IT's that time of year where we're all appreciated our friends and family so much. I"m sure you guys are all doing the same. Maybe when you're at your next family gathering try starting a conversation about politics, and tell me later how it goes. I"m kidding don't do that. But maybe over the next week we can all have some conversations that will help us understand how different everyone is thinking. That there is a thinly held majority in any one area of thought these days, and climbing is certainly no different.

The good news is the ideas on this thread have inspired many people, lol, someone will probably contacting you soon to participate in a magazine article or short film about climbing ethics.

The storms have cleared here and Yosemite is shining. Go For It!
Erik
Yosemitebigwall.com

In and out...there he went!
I bet Erik will still be smiling by the time this is done....
It ain't no ethics thread if it hasn't gone to twenty pages.

EDIT: Page 12!

Alexey wrote: Mr. Sloan, I asked you three simple questions 1) names of FA party of of Yama Shama, 2)the reason why the crack was bolted and 3) about your personal efforts in drilling the bolts on this route. You manage to write a reply without answering on any of the above questions. I know I'm wasting my time talking with you, and probably other people trying to reach you are wasting their time too. but remember there is no tolerance of bolted cracks in Yosemite if they provide adequate protection. I never been in chopping bolts action, but looks like this going to be my " stewardship" for the park if you started bolting cracks for your book publishing business

I got no skin in this game, but are you still gonna chop them?

So, according to Erik Sloan:

1) Retrobolting aid routes for the expressed purpose of dumbing down the existing aid climbing is now on par with adding bolts to existing aid pitches in order to equip the pitches for free climbing.

2) The bolts added with permission of the FA team to existing pitches apparently now justify bolted cracks.

3) Now that Erik has begun retrobolting aid routes, the free climbing bolts previously added to aid pitches apparently fall into a gray area of ethics.

4) And last but not least, According to Erik and his disciples, none of this ethical "gray area" b.s. contributes in any way to a slippery slope type of thing.

I don't agree with any of the above points, but if did...

Also, Erik, this is not the "Ammon ethics thread", nor the "Tommy's ethics thread", it is the "Erik Sloan ethics thread". Please, stay on topic. If you feel those other climbers have violated ethics as much as yourself, start a separate thread.

Christian George wrote: You come off as a sock puppet.

Yep. Christian isn't the only person to witness Sloan power drilling with their own eyes. This is a messed up scenario because we want to "police our own" specifically to avoid having "the man" step in and start regulating. But when the gentleman in question refuses to heed to wishes of the vast, vast majority of the climbing community, then we have a conundrum.

I don't like some of ES's actions more than most of the people here, but this thread is starting to look like everybody is butt-hurt. We are making progress, though, as Erik is starting to actually answer questions such as "Who was the FA on the bolted crack".

Perhaps if y'all could tone down the butt-hurt and hostility, this conversation might get slightly more productive.

Christian George wrote: You come off as a sock puppet. Are you a real person? Prove it.

Christian George
From Ridgway CO (via Supertopo)
Joined Dec 7, 2015 (to trash someone)
0 points

I rest my case.