Planned Seasonal Closure of Clear Creek Canyon (formerly "Clear Creek Bolting Ban?")

They won't be able to park here unless it is an emergency, like a flat tire. I asked Dave Davenport of JCOS: What if someone gets out of their car, in the parking area, to take a photo? He said "I am not going to answer that". Forget fly fishing here. They were uncertain about closing the river to kayaks. I don't think JCOS or even private land owners can close a river to river travel. What JCOS will attempt to do is a different matter. Don't be surprised.

I sent in my comments and objections to the proposed rapture closures in CCC and the requirement for a fixed hardware review committee for all installations going forwarded.

I conceded on having hardware regulations for new crags, but regarding the current eagles nesting in CCC there is ample evidence that they are not being agitated by their very presence in the canyon year upon year with active climbing areas in the vicinity. JCOS simply has failed to present any credible evidence that eagles are agitated by either selecting nests in other locations outside of their habitual nests and/or that have been are abandoning nests in these past years.

To me it is regulation in search of a problem, not the other way around.

Rui Ferreira wrote:JCOS simply has failed to present any credible evidence that eagles are agitated by either selecting nests in other locations outside of their habitual nests and/or that have been are abandoning nests in these past years. To me it is regulation in search of a problem, not the other way around.

Golden's mate for life and typically keep several nests that they rotate year-to-year. They may simply not use a particular nest in any given year. That's where the monitoring comes in. If they end up not using it the closure should get lifted.

Healyje wrote: Golden's mate for life and typically keep several nests that they rotate year-to-year. They may simply not use a particular nest in any given year. That's where the monitoring comes in. If they end up not using it the closure should get lifted.

And this is exactly what we have been told will happen. One thing is 5 of the active nests are all on the same cliff very close to each other, so chances are they will select one of those nests.

The closures (while they don't make climbers happy) seem evidence based and reasonable to me. I can climb somewhere else during those months. It's not like we don't have a ton of other options in the Front Range...

Erika, people have been taking that attitude for over 21 years in Boulder. They have been saying the same thing for two decades. First it was the Flatirons north of Eldorado. Then there was closures in Eldorado. Then Mickey Maus Wall, that was state land, was purchased by Boulder Open Space & it has been seasonally closed since 1995. Then Boulder Canyon went from closing one or two cliffs to closing 8 cliffs in 2001.

Highlander was one of those crags that was always open. What's next? This Tunnel 2 closure is about speculation not facts. It's lowering the bar for how the precautionary principle can be employed. If these eagles were endangered or threatened, I would agree with this closure. This is not the case.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a progressive. I believe in the endangered species act & protecting the environment, but I think we should use some common sense here. Our use of fossil fuels is doing a lot more to harm wildlife than climbing at Highlander. If we overregulate individual freedom we will no longer be a free society. I agree with Rui. "This is a regulation in search of a problem".

I guess we can agree to disagree Mark. I think many facts have been presented, and it seems to me that the county is trying to balance protecting the eagles (let's not wait until they are endangered) with the needs/wants of the public. I know you see things differently.

This seems to be somewhat of an evolving science, and as we learn more, different approaches probably come into play. Call me naive, but I do have confidence in the expertise of the wildlife biologists and natural resources people who have worked on these closures.

I enjoyed meeting you in person the other night, I thought you brought up some excellent points during the discussion.

There is room for public discourse and disagreement but once guidelines are implemented it is left to the enforcing agency to interpret and implement the guidelines at its own discretion. What may be perceived as a climbing tolerant agency today could revert to a complete opposite in the future with expanded closures in terms of locations and duration.

The mere fact that eagles nest year after year in the canyon across the road from Highlander Crag is sufficient evidence that climbing activity up until now has not "agitated" them to seek nests elsewhere or have caused them to abandon nests mid breeding season. The data simply have not been presented to the public to prove otherwise.

The framing of this discussion continues to be polarized in terms of climbers versus eagles, when instead it should be based on sound science and data specific to these birds in Clear Creek Canyon and the slippery slope of unsubstantiated regulations and discretionary guidelines.

Rui Ferreira wrote: The mere fact that eagles nest year after year in the canyon across the road from Highlander Crag is sufficient evidence that climbing activity up until now has not "agitated" them to seek nests elsewhere or have caused them to abandon nests mid breeding season.

If you have the successful fledgling counts for each year, please share it!

Tony, shouldn't that be the job for the county wildlife staff?!

(Post edit) a more appropriate question is how many nests have been abandoned and how many seasons in recent years have eagles failed to nest in Clear Creek Canyon? If JeffCo were able to present such data I would be the last one to object to closures.

Erika, I can respect your opinion. I enjoyed meeting you last Wednesday. I think you have contributed a great deal to a thoughtful discussion & raised some excellent points on this thread. It's okay that you disagree with me.
I don't hold it against you. We can still be friends.

I have argued with Monty on this thread, too. I had a great conversation with him last Wednesday about bolt removal & replacement. I think he's a great guy, an excellent climber & he knows a lot about bolt replacement. I don't expect him or anyone else to always agree with me. We can still be friends.

That said, I have seen the progression of seasonal raptor closures on the Front Range & they are increasing. Once they are in place, they rarely get scaled back. I have to agree with Rui on the Tunnel 2 closure.

Mark Rolofson wrote:That said, I have seen the progression of seasonal raptor closures on the Front Range & they are increasing. Once they are in place, they rarely get scaled back.

Respectfully, has anyone suggested scaling back housing developments or growth? : )

Raptor research and preservation efforts have been going for many decades now, with some very good results. In my area, climbers, the access fund, land managers, and others have worked together. Our local closures are pretty reasonable and very much supported.

Research wise, the general, background information is very well established, and has been for quite some time. One of the studies here (maybe 20-25 years back?) involved wintering bald eagles and human disturbance. These weren't nesting, just fishing in our river and roosting in trees, right in the city. The study did indeed show a huge bias by the eagles against anyone stopping or going too slow. Move right along, be as loud as you want, they didn't care a bit. So yeah, the big guys are far more freaked by bird watching old ladies than a big pack of Harley hogs ripping by full throttle!

Best to all of you there in CO. It sounds like you're a good group of people, and hey, at least you care enough to have opinions and get involved.

Rui Ferreira wrote:Tony, shouldn't that be the job for the county wildlife staff?! (Post edit) a more appropriate question is how many nests have been abandoned and how many seasons in recent years have eagles failed to nest in Clear Creek Canyon? If JeffCo were able to present such data I would be the last one to object to closures.

We're asking for that, and unfortunately the staffer presently there is not the one who took the data. Different folks. New person on the job.
Failed to nest and failed to fledge are different things, both can be an indication of disruption. Fledging 2 chicks per year would be an indication of really successful birds that I'd argue are having very little distress. The pair in BoCan is succeeding to that level lately.
Anyway, I'm anxiously awaiting that data from the County. It doesn't come from the climbing/Rec staff though, it comes from the Natural Resources folks, we hope.

At the Eagle Camp at the AMC last night (which they invited those interested to attend at both earlier JCOS/Climbing meetings), they had some good news for us for raptor closures and asked for those willing to aid in the raptor monitoring.

For the raptor closure most recent draft info: JCOS has involved the NFS, CPW, and ArcGIS folks with on site field evaluations to reduce the area around MM 266 (Tunnel 2) to NOT include the long pullout across from New River Wall east of Tunnel 2. The latest plan is to allow for climber access to lower crags and west crags (New River Wall, Merlin, Twitch, Rapids Rock, High Wire, Left Wire, Right Wire, Point Break, and Wall of the '90s & west). What will go under the initial closure will include Highlander, Evil Cave, and Tetanus Garden. They intend to close the split off the access trail that goes up to Highlander. These closures are inclusive of all human activities including hiking, walking, exploring, climbing, etc.

In the MM 270 area (W of Tunnel 1), the initial closures will affect the Blonde Formation, Bumbling Stock, Stumbling Block, Skinny Legs, Ghost Crag, Fault Caves (not really climbing), and low access to Secret Icefall. They will not affect New Hipster Rock, Sports Wall, East side of Tunnel 1, and Postcolonial Crag. Note, it's not clear if Secret Icefall is inside or outside of the closure yet.

They hope to get the final draft maps available on the JeffCo OS website next week. They await ArcGIS fine tuning of maps & signoff.

In addition, the intent of the Eagle Camp was to educate people and enlist our assistance in monitoring the golden eagles in their activities. This can help us in quicker reduction in area/crag closures. With some species identification education (which can be self-taught or by experience), we can use 3 methods of providing info. 1) download the app iNaturalist (free). Get a username & password. Make sure to select under project - Clear Creek Canyon Eagle Watch. You can find this also under "Nearby". 2) you can help with observations using http://www.inaturalist.org or http://www.inaturalist.org/projects/clear-creek-canyon-eagle-watch. If you can pinpoint your locations on the satellite map, do so. You can also add GPS coordinates or even do it relative to known crags. A detailed description of activities of the golden eagles can help (e.g. 2 goldens in aerial courtship, nest building, carrying sticks to the cliff, pair bonding. 3) you can send emails to mbonnell@jeffco.us or messages to 303-271-5995. Include date, time, location, and detailed behavior.

Note CCC reported activity to date: nest building Jan 19-May 4; courtship - Apr 12 - June 19; nest with young - Apr 15 - Jul 20; occupied nest - Apr 22 - Jul 25; fledged young May 8 - Aug 12.

There will be another Eagle Camp early in 2016 if you wanted to but couldn't make this meeting last night. Also JCOS has more robust training available for those interested.

On the enforcement side of things, we climbers can help self-police (preferred, IMO) and help by educating folks unaware of the latest closures by directly talking to those in or headed to the closed areas (if you are comfortable). If all else fails, you can involve JeffCo sheriffs at 303-277-0211.

On a lighter note, some well-meaning folks have mis-identified other avian species such as turkey vultures, ravens, crows, ... and even pigeons in their reports. So, if you do want to help, make sure to identify the golden eagles. Thanks!

Thanks for sharing the great news Leo!

Leo Paik wrote:On a lighter note, some well-meaning folks have mis-identified other avian species such as turkey vultures, ravens, crows, ... and even pigeons in their reports. So, if you do want to help, make sure to identify the golden eagles. Thanks!

As I mentioned earlier, raptor monitoring does take a bit of time to really understand what it is you are looking at and just staring through binoculars can be more wearying than you might imagine. I'd say peregrine monitoring takes 2-3 years to really sort their silhouettes/wing/flight patterns and 3-4 years to get their local hunting and thermalling patterns down.

Eagles should be much easier; like a year should do it given there's not much you can mistake for an eagle outside of vultures and the latter's wing / flight patterns are quite distinctive and very different from eagles.

I'm looking for a little perspective here. The Clear Creek corridor is 25 miles long. The climbing crags likely take up less than 1 mile of this, definitely far less than 2 miles. That leaves 23 - 24 miles for raptor nesting (~95% of the canyon). Add to this all of the the side canyons feeding into Clear Creek which have no climbing at all and it seems the opportunity for raptor nesting in the Clear Creek drainage far exceeds the relatively tiny amount of real estate that climbing takes up. With this fact in mind, is there any good reason to close down ANY climbing crag when there appears to be ample room for raptors to nest within the Clear Creek drainage area. Even if raptors prefer to nest on rock outcroppings there are far more outcroppings that are not climbed than those which are being climbed.

William, the challenge is that the birds don't nest as we like. They choose nest sites. Interestingly, they seem to like some of the same terrain that we climbers like. So, on paper, your math might seem plausible; however, in practice they have nested in places close to active climbing crags. Much of the terrain climbers might find less appealing is the terrain these magnificent birds seem to disdain.

William Thiry wrote:I'm looking for a little perspective here. The Clear Creek corridor is 25 miles long. The climbing crags likely take up less than 1 mile of this, definitely far less than 2 miles. That leaves 23 - 24 miles for raptor nesting (~95% of the canyon). Add to this all of the the side canyons feeding into Clear Creek which have no climbing at all and it seems the opportunity for raptor nesting in the Clear Creek drainage far exceeds the relatively tiny amount of real estate that climbing takes up. With this fact in mind, is there any good reason to close down ANY climbing crag when there appears to be ample room for raptors to nest within the Clear Creek drainage area. Even if raptors prefer to nest on rock outcroppings there are far more outcroppings that are not climbed than those which are being climbed.

Yes, but Eagles only nest on certain, and very particular aspects of cliffs. They don't just "pick one." Also- there are other pairs around, probably in some of those side canyons you mention, but there's no sense in closing unused areas.

Eagles pick sites that are very, very non-random. Things like independent (non-occupied) territory, near their hunting, get hot weather shade, cold weather sun, have a stable ledge of sufficient size and grade, be below significant overhangs or roofs, or at least not in an area that might collect water or be in it's course. Etc. They want a particular area of viewshed, etc. They are actually very picky.

There are sites that have been continuously occupied for hundreds of years and that's obviously not by the same birds. They just happen to like very specific qualities in their sites. When a pair does not return, a new pair may pick their old site.

More dangerous to them, perhaps, is that they might pick their nest site when activity is minimal (it can be that way in February) and then have the activity pick up after selecting a nest, and then get overly disturbed and either spend all their time watching people and not hunting, or refuse to leave the nest to hunt when they need to. I mention that because I hear the uninformed argument "but they chose that nest near climbers" with some frequency, and it's not a very sound argument. We don't know where the climbers were when they started the courtship ritual of carrying sticks to a nest site.

Anyway, one more important fact: If one chick is stressed for food, it will most certainly kill the other chick. Peck it to death or shove it out of the nest. Again, this is just their biology. One well-fed chick might survive, but 2 malnourished chicks will not.

Hope this helps address your questions.

Thanks Tony,
Climbing in Clear Creek has only been in serious development for the past 20 years with little serious study of the environment of the region (at least as far as I know) during that time. Climbers were given extraordinary freedom there to develop new areas and routes on public lands. That frontier is closing and now land managers and climbing advocates have to cope with the legacy of the activity of the past. I think part of the problem here is precisely the attitude with which Clear Creek was regarded by many, that is as a casino-bus and gravel-truck wasteland sandwiched between I-70 and metro Denver. A history of chipped and glued routes, among other things, speaks to this mentality. I always felt this attitude was a mistake and that there was something unique and special about the rock and the routes there that deserved a different approach. Personally I am glad to see a reappraisal of this canyon corridor that recognizes its biological and environmental dimensions even if there are inconveniences to climbers at certain times of the year as a result.

Thanks for the replies. I'd like to learn more. Does anyone know if and where any permanent or semi-permanent nesting sites are in the Clear Creek drainage? Have we studied the area enough to know this yet? Having a map of where the raptor families actually nest would be pretty darn cool.