2015-16 Colorado Ice Conditions

The Blueprint Part Dank wrote: ... a good lawyer (liability and whatnot) and charged an entry fee, ...

All correct except the entry fee. By charging a fee, you accept significant liability. That's the reason Ouray Ice Park is completely free but asks for donations. Same with Muir Valley at RRG.

The insurance overhead at a for-fee "extreme sports" area would be astronomical.

Jon H wrote: All correct except the entry fee. By charging a fee, you accept significant liability. That's the reason Ouray Ice Park is completely free but asks for donations. Same with Muir Valley at RRG. The insurance overhead at a for-fee "extreme sports" area would be astronomical.

Interesting... I'm not an expert in these areas. Would it be any different for a city? Such as Idaho Springs? Or is the cost essentially the same (or possibly higher) and the prohibitive factor?

A few years ago we put a coalition together to try and understand what it would take to farm ice in Boulder Canyon - legitimately.

It came down to paying for shares of water used, or roughly one family of four for a year. And, the City thought it would cost about $100k per tap using the current pipe that runs down the Canyon from Barker.

Where I think the price per tap is high and could be worked lower (volunteers), there was the discussion about private property, liability on public property, and control.

I think if the downtown merchants and chamber of commerce were approached with the idea of an ice climbing festival, I think it might be easier to get things done with the City Council. Especially when one considers downtown traffic in mid-winter. And it would draw more of the novices.

Just a thought.

Wild Basin - Hidden Falls .

Similiar situation at Wild Basin Hidden Falls, probably 15 people when we left at 12noon Dec 13th

Hiiden Falls - Main Flow.

12/13/2015 Conditions are good and hooked Out, Byron Hense on the Main Flow

Obvious solution to this is to only Ice Climb at night. I just moved from the black hills and we honestly had more ice abailable to us that was close to the road as all of the front range. It is only a six hour drive and busy conditions there would seem trivial here. Hell we had our own ice farm 2 miles from town.

The Black Hills Bridal Veil

Community Cave
You may actually get more climbing in by driving 6 hours to Spearfish as there are at least 5 flows within a 10 minute walk from the car than driving to RMNP and then hiking a long way and then getting in line to climb or if you are first doing a lap then being done as the people will have arrived no matter how early you start.

If you are lucky you can throw in a lap on Devils Tower while you are at it.

Bob Berger wrote:A few years ago we put a coalition together to try and understand what it would take to farm ice in Boulder Canyon - legitimately. It came down to paying for shares of water used, or roughly one family of four for a year. And, the City thought it would cost about $100k per tap using the current pipe that runs down the Canyon from Barker. Where I think the price per tap is high and could be worked lower (volunteers), there was the discussion about private property, liability on public property, and control. I think if the downtown merchants and chamber of commerce were approached with the idea of an ice climbing festival, I think it might be easier to get things done with the City Council. Especially when one considers downtown traffic in mid-winter. And it would draw more of the novices. Just a thought.

This is an idea worth pursuing and it's not going to be my problem as we're following Yvon Chouinard's advice and moving to the Caribbean soon. It's definitely worth considering the impact that RMNP and nearby areas will receive in 2016 and beyond with (5) new NPS Concessions moving into town that will be offering ice climbing lessons on the few flows available in the park worth taking beginners to: Hidden, Loch Vale, Jewel (overflow). These areas and a few others will be likely seeing multiple guided groups a day beyond their current numbers and so without more ice in the Front Range it's going to be an even bigger strain on resources and for everyone who'd like to climb some ice on their day off. Maybe these large and wealthy guide services can chip-in for the cost of such a project as they will be the biggest economic beneficiaries and otherwise they'll likely take-up all of the other ice in the region for their work.

For all of the above reasons as discussed, plus a few other personal reasons, this is a make it or break it year for me, if I retire my tools for good. It's been 25 yrs of climbing, lot's of good stuff, lot's of painful approaches, more than a few "back-off's" and a F@ck-it here and there. These days it is getting increasing more difficult time-wise to do full weekend trips or even really long days. This leaves the easier access stuff as the selection pool. With the reality of the insanity it is getting more and more difficult to go out and have fun. It is scary to see some of the stupidity out there... Anyway, we will see if this is the final hurrah, still haven't decided just yet...

I would imagine parking in boulder canyon would cause as much problem as the water source. I iced farmed for years with pretty good success in the black hills and all it takes is water, cliff, and cold but the politics seem way too much to deal with here. Not to mention the private ownership of the water. There does seem to be an argument that the water originates here and we should have some say. Make it a state wide issue and maybe you could make something happen. Also ice flows don't seem to cause erosional damage the same way running water does at least certainly not nearly as fast.

Eli Helmuth wrote:we're following Yvon Chouinard's advice and moving to the Caribbean soon.

maaaaannnnn....Guess I better take another one of your classes soon.

Hate to hear you are leaving the FR, but happy for you!

Best wishes Eli!

Eli, I think Yvonne said, "If we weren't climbers, we'd all be surfers!"

All the bitching about crowds in the POPULAR ice climbing is laughable. Get up early, walk farther, start dry tooling, or drive to Cody. As the Front Range and the rest of Colorado go the way of Southern California things will continue to get worse. The idea of posting in a public forum that is open to anyone with the internet about conditions of reasonably accessible climbing areas perpetuates the problem. If you don't want there to be crowds at your favorite weekend climbing spots, resist the urge for self aggrandizement and DO NOT POST IT HERE. Chill your ego and start a closed Facebook group with people you care to share info with. I'm just going to say it here and now, DISBAND AND DELETE THIS THREAD! It is the problem and has become a vortex of negativity and elitism. A "stoke killer" if you will. If you're not part of the solution, you are the problem.

If the mexican cartels can tap oil pipelines and not get caught, surely a covert group of plumbers and mechanical engineers can do the same in boulder canyon. I am but a humble water relocation specialist( gutter installer) so ya'll are gonna have to take this idea and run with it. The Ice farmers cartel shall reign for 1000 years!

Jerod Mendolia wrote:All the bitching about crowds in the POPULAR ice climbing is laughable. Get up early, walk farther, start dry tooling, or drive to Cody. As the Front Range and the rest of Colorado go the way of Southern California things will continue to get worse. The idea of posting in a public forum that is open to anyone with the internet about conditions of reasonably accessible climbing areas perpetuates the problem. If you don't want there to be crowds at your favorite weekend climbing spots, resist the urge for self aggrandizement and DO NOT POST IT HERE. Chill your ego and start a closed Facebook group with people you care to share info with. I'm just going to say it here and now, DISBAND AND DELETE THIS THREAD! It is the problem and has become a vortex of negativity and elitism. A "stoke killer" if you will. If you're not part of the solution, you are the problem.

Jerod - As an occasional poster of conditions, and also one that thinks the complaining of overcrowding is truly ridiculous here are a few thoughts.

a) Small groups don't work - Great example is the "AMUDT'n" is quickly nearing 200 members.

b) Sure, keep it a secret but don't post any pictures....anywhere. Even when you post a few fun pics to your wall, most folks within a few degrees of separations will see your unintentional conditions report (assuming you don't have your FB settings on DefCon4).

The climbing community is small, and a focused "Ice Conditions Report" is just a concentrated aggregate of info - all the info is out there already (unless you are new to the area and don't have any climber friends, or your climbing community is completely absent from social media.

I also like seeing my friends post pics. It keeps me hungry to get out and psyched to see them CRUSHING. There's also the aspect of story telling that's humorous and entertaining:
Edub being EDub

c) " Get up early, walk farther," Yep. Two weekends back to back in the Front Range. There were bluebird conditions and classics within a 2hr approach....EMPTY.

d) Can somebody please post some climbing pics so I can get stoked while I'm stuck inside right now!

J Antin wrote: Jerod - As an occasional poster of conditions, and also one that thinks the complaining of overcrowding is truly ridiculous here are a few thoughts. a) Small groups don't work - Great example is the "AMUDT'n" is quickly nearing 200 members. b) Sure, keep it a secret but don't post any pictures....anywhere. Even when you post a few fun pics to your wall, most folks within a few degrees of separations will see your unintentional conditions report (assuming you don't have your FB settings on DefCon4). The climbing community is small, and a focused "Ice Conditions Report" is just a concentrated aggregate of info - all the info is out there already (unless you are new to the area and don't have any climber friends, or your climbing community is completely absent from social media. I also like seeing my friends post pics. It keeps me hungry to get out and psyched to see them CRUSHING. There's also the aspect of story telling that's humorous and entertaining: c) " Get up early, walk farther," Yep. Two weekends back to back in the Front Range. There were bluebird conditions and classics within a 2hr approach....EMPTY. d) Can somebody please post some climbing pics so I can get stoked while I'm stuck inside right now!

I absolutely agree with you on several points. I'm most certainly not opposed to more folks getting into ice climbing here in CO as our clout as a user group will increase. Look at the mountain bike community here in the springs. Numerous attempts to shut down bear creek area trails due to the discovery of the green cutthroat trout in the stream halted because the user groups had enough influence to sway the decision.

This thread is a conditions report. Every time I look there is something negative in here and it makes me cynical. I said what I said because I've taken the gear for a walk more times than I care to count for one reason or another. I love the process for what it is.

Keeping it secret is not what I was getting at. Merely an understanding that the front range is growing and more folks are moving here to take advantage of our states natural beauty. I like Brady Robinsons solution, if you don't like the crowds, then remove yourself and reduce the crowd by one.

I would love to see some ice farming going on here on the front range but I think that's a long shot without land and municipal managers on board. Right now there just doesn't seem to be any momentum outside the climbing community or at least that I've heard.

I love AMUDT because it is a positive group of people who share the love. I've gotten a lot out of that group and appreciate the dialog there. I'd like to see more of that here.

I never maintained that everything is crowded all the time, rather that certain areas will see more traffic due to the accessibility or the nature of the climbing there. If anything the crowds have motivated me to get better at dry tooling and chossaneering.

I'm with you, someone post some rad pics of climbing so we can share the stoke!

All the crowds and guided groups can enjoy the ice at Loch Vale now. Here is Crystal meth in fat conditions today.

Crystal Meth at Loch Vale in RMNP.

All Mixed Up is looking fat-ish at the top, though the ice on the first pitch is VERY thin. The hike was hard with some postholing chest deep, even in snowshoes. Maybe that was why we were the only ones there...

Scott McMahon wrote: maaaaannnnn....Guess I better take another one of your classes soon. Hate to hear you are leaving the FR, but happy for you! Best wishes Eli!

Thanks Scott, hope to get out with you this summer and hope you'll come visit PR for more fun in the future!

Anyone been on Bridalveil yet?

Sorry but it's the same everywhere, too many guides, too many people. SW Colorado has gotten crowded in just three years, thanks to the Internet and all the guide companies. Went to Eureka on a Sunday, 35 cars in the parking lot, for just 7 climbs. Rediculous. I too am selling my gear after 30+ years ice climbing on the western slope. I like the Seychelles.

Not sure what James is complaining about. Had bridalvejl to ourselves Saturday, Dukes of hazard in Eureka (where we were the only car I saw) Sunday, and soloed Dexter creek slabs without seeing another person today. The ice is in, good, and not too crowded if you know where to look and can climb (read: stay off camp bird and "moderates").