My list of best cities/towns to live as a climber (feedback appreciated!)

Christoph, I meant --- No mention by the OP

But anyway, I see that his list incorporates his life/career needs.... Thus North Conway is out of the picture (He does not want to be a dish washer)

Thanks for all the feedback---lots of great points about the Northeast, Northern Midwest, California, Pacific Northwest, Arizona, and other areas.

Also thanks for suggestions of places to add to the list.

Some places that I don't know much about and haven't been discussed much are the Southeast, Texas, Oklahoma, Montana, Idaho, and Pennsylvania. Here is how I rated some of these locations:

Southeast:

• Atlanta, GA - 4.5 - 2 hours from Horse Pens, 2 hours from Chattanooga, decent local options
• Tuscaloosa, AL - 4.5 - 1.5 hours from Horse Pens, 3 hours from Chattanooga
• Fayetteville, AR - 6 - 1.5 hours from Horseshoe Canyon ranch and other good options

Texas and Oklahoma:

• Austin, TX - 4 - Good local options
• Norman, OK - 4.5 - 2 hours from Wichita Wildlife Refuge

Montana and Idaho:

• Missoula, MT - 5 - Less developed but lots of good local options
• Moscow, ID - 4 - 4 hours from the Cascades, 1.5 hours from good local options near Spokane

Pennsylvania:

• Pittsburgh, PA - 4 - Good local options
• Philadelphia, PA - 4 - 3 hours to the Gunks, ok local options

Any thoughts on whether these ratings are fair?

Also, I hear the concerns about rain in the Pac NW but I've also met a number of Pac NWers who were really passionate about the climbing scene out there and claim the rain isn't too bad. I gave Seattle and Vancouver 9/10 (same as Reno, Lexington, and Laramie and lower than only Boulder and SLC). Any Pac NWers want to jump in and defend those high marks?

I think you rated Irvine higher than La Jolla or Berkeley.

IMO the SF Bay should rate higher than any socal option because it has world class year-round climbing within weekend striking distance. SoCal has a more limited selection of rock and tighter seasons. Also, the local rock in San Diego is decent in quantity and quality; Irvine not so much.

Wouldn't call Irvine a great city for a climber, but you could do way worse. Its advantage lies in Socal having a ton of rock, both at well-known concentrated destinations (JT, Tahquitz, Suicide), countless obscure spots nearby, and everything in between.
There is good granite sport climbing at Holcomb Valley near Big Bear lake in the San Bernardino mountains. Also with popular sport climbing, New Jack City near Barstow has metamorphic rock in a high desert environment. (Both ~2 hrs away.)
Pirate's Cove (sandstone steep jug hauling) is 5 miles away from UC Irvine at the beach, which is pleasant but limited, even if you're a boulderer. Turtle Rock is only a mile from UCI, but the rock is sharp and friable and the climbs are even fewer in number. (Bolts ok?) Ortega Falls (E Orange County) is slick, highly limited, and not close enough to be worthwhile. Town of Riverside is 40 miles away: Rubidoux has a fair concentration of old school granite dime edge smearing, but limited in taller roped climbs and certainly leads. (Good enough back in the day for competitions, though.) Riverside Quarry is literally a dump. It has good granite sport and openly manufactured climbs. Mt. Baldy (~45 miles away) has somewhat unknown overhanging sport climbs by a waterfall, and a surprising amount of hidden bouldering in different sectors, each with different rock characteristics.

James Thomas wrote:Southeast: *Atlanta, GA - 4.5 - 2 hours from Horse Pens, 2 hours from Chattanooga, decent local options *Tuscaloosa, AL - 4.5 - 1.5 hours from Horse Pens, 3 hours from Chattanooga

Why don't you include Chattanooga as a destination if you include it as a "pro" for ATL and Tuscaloosa? It does have at least one university, UTC, if not more, and it is amazing for climbing. Also it's super cheap and much more progressive than many other places in the south, although that isn't exactly saying a lot.

Asheville (UNC-A), Boone (App State), Chattanooga (UT-C)?

James,
I'd put Bend in there as somewhere betweem a 7-8, Smith & Trout. Portland could be a 6-7, close-ish to Smith, local options, 6 gyms.

Seattle seems cool but can be very limited when it rains.

J. Albers wrote: IMHO having real mountains and the crags that come with that within at least weekend striking distance is huge. That pretty much means anything east of the Mississippi gets minus points and the Midwest is a big sinkhole. My map would more or less be three categories: (1) east coast pretty much anywhere close to climbing (Rumney, Gunks, the New) = 3-6; (2) anywhere in the Midwest = 1-2; and (3) the mountain west, say AZ,NM,CO,WY,MT,UT,CA,NV are = 7-10.

I was born in Minnesota and have lived on both coasts. Pretty much agree 100% with J. expect I would put WA into the Mountain West.

James Thomas wrote: Any Pac NWers want to jump in and defend those high marks?

I don't live there anymore because of my job/wife but would move back in a heartbeat if I could. The east side of the mountains is desert so you can go rock climbing almost every weekend March through Dec. if your willing to drive 2.5hrs.

Also, there is something pretty sweet about having zero snow in town and being able to drive 1hr to a ton of it.

Dont forget DC! 3 hrs to Coopers Rock (great bouldering) and 5.5 from the NRG!

Flagstaff, AZ - The ability to climb on almost any type of rock you want within a 2 hour drive from downtown. Northern Arizona University.
- Pit (limestone), sport 15 minutes
- Priest Draw, (limestone), bouldering, 20 minutes
- Overlook (basalt), trad 20 minutes
- Elden (Dacite), Trad & Sport 10 minutes
- Buffalo Park (Basalt), bouldering, 5 minutes
- Peaks (Dacite), sport, 20 minutes
- Hobo Jungle (Dacite), Sport & Mixed, 30 minutes
- Paradise Forks (Basalt w/ Splitters), Trad, 40 minutes
- Oak Creek Canyon incl. Waterfall(Basalt & Sandstone), Trad, 35 minutes
- Sedona (up to 12 pitch Sandstone), Mostly trad, 45 minutes
- East Clear Creek (Deep Water Soloing, sandstone etc), 60 minutes
- Williams Mountain (Dacite), Adventure Climbing, 60 minutes
- Isolation Canyon (Quartzite), 90 minutes
- Granite Mountain (Multi pitch Granite), Trad, 90 minutes
- Jacks Canyon (Limestone), sport, 90 minutes
- Grand Canyon, adventure climbing, 90 minutes
- Tucson Climbing (Mt Lemmon, Cochise etc), 5 hours to climbing
- Red Rocks 4.5 hours
- Zion 4 hours
- Indian Creek 5 hours
- Jtree 5 hours
- Moab 6 hours
- Ouray 6 hours
and the list goes on.....

The mountain biking and trail running is pretty spectacular as well. Plus having a ski hill within a 30 minutes drive can be fun in the winter.

The list kind of makes sense, but what type of climbing are you rating on? I used to live in Bishop CA, the alpine in the summer and the bouldering in the winter is world class. The cragging, it's good and fun but not the gem of the area. Now I live in Flagstaff AZ which has loads of phenomenal cragging year round on many rock types. The bouldering is good and mountains are a ways away. Yea, yea, Sedona, I know, I said MOUNTAINS. My point is I think a lot depends on what type of climbing you want access to. If you're into alpine living next to the RRG probably isn't going to do it for you. If your passion is steep sport then you can find it in Flagstaff, but it's far from a mecca for that style. My suggestion is to keep an eye on who the Canadians elect and if it turns out good head North my man! BC is the shit!

DesertRat wrote:Flagstaff, AZ - The ability to climb on almost any type of rock you want within a 2 hour drive from downtown. Northern Arizona University. - Pit (limestone), sport 15 minutes - Priest Draw, (limestone), bouldering, 20 minutes - Overlook (basalt), trad 20 minutes - Elden (Dacite), Trad & Sport 10 minutes - Buffalo Park (Basalt), bouldering, 5 minutes - Peaks (Dacite), sport, 20 minutes - Hobo Jungle (Dacite), Sport & Mixed, 30 minutes - Paradise Forks (Basalt w/ Splitters), Trad, 40 minutes - Oak Creek Canyon incl. Waterfall(Basalt & Sandstone), Trad, 35 minutes - Sedona (up to 12 pitch Sandstone), Mostly trad, 45 minutes - East Clear Creek (Deep Water Soloing, sandstone etc), 60 minutes - Williams Mountain (Dacite), Adventure Climbing, 60 minutes - Isolation Canyon (Quartzite), 90 minutes - Granite Mountain (Multi pitch Granite), Trad, 90 minutes - Jacks Canyon (Limestone), sport, 90 minutes - Grand Canyon, adventure climbing, 90 minutes - Tucson Climbing (Mt Lemmon, Cochise etc), 5 hours to climbing - Red Rocks 4.5 hours - Zion 4 hours - Indian Creek 5 hours - Jtree 5 hours - Moab 6 hours - Ouray 6 hours and the list goes on..... The mountain biking and trail running is pretty spectacular as well. Plus having a ski hill within a 30 minutes drive can be fun in the winter.

Rule #1 of living in Flagstaff: DO NOT TALK ABOUT FLAGSTAFF!

Be Esperanza wrote: Activities that are unavailable in Boulder: 1. Have a conversation with a local which is not solely comprised of listening to the individual talk about them self. 2. Have a conversation with a local that is devoid of spray, self-promotion, or one-up-manship. 3. Listen to a local discuss a political issue that is in some respect grounded in reality. More Boulder-bashing to follow. Stay tuned.

If you live there, I imagine it's hard to hear anyone else over your own spray.

Be Esperanza wrote: Activities that are unavailable in Boulder: 1. Have a conversation with a local which is not solely comprised of listening to the individual talk about them self. 2. Have a conversation with a local that is devoid of spray, self-promotion, or one-up-manship. 3. Listen to a local discuss a political issue that is in some respect grounded in reality. More Boulder-bashing to follow. Stay tuned.

thank you for staying on the east coast.

I agree with what Wylie said - the list totally depends on what type of climbing you're interested in. I grew up in SLC, basically at the mouth of Little Cottonwood Canyon. I think the absolute best thing about Utah is how accessible the climbing is. I lived in Cottonwood Heights, which has some of the best quick-access climbing and skiing in the country, literally a 15 minute drive from neighborhoods where average people live. Utah also has amazing options for desert climbing in the winter. For most types of climbing, I agree that it is basically climbing heaven.
Work took me to Seattle two years ago, and I can say that the climbing here is amazing as well, but in a totally different way. I think there is better access to bigger mountains in the PNW - think North Cascades, Alpine Lakes Region, trips to the Bugaboos, etc. There is also plenty of cragging to keep you occupied, and certainly stuff way above my grade - places like Index come to mind. The thing to keep in mind about the Seattle climbing scene though, at least when compared to SLC, is that the access is simply not as good. Expect to drive at least an hour to get to any outdoor climbing, period. Plan on longer if you're trying to get anywhere around downtown at any reasonable hour. I guess what I'm saying is that the Seattle area has great weekend climbing - full-day or two-day options are really endless. Trying to fit something in after work can be a bit more of a challenge.

I enjoy how you put Albany, NY so high haha!

Here's a few more reason's it isn't as bad of an area for climbers as some may think.

Rock:

-Gunks: 1.5hrs (South)
-ADK's: 1-2 hrs (North)

• Lake George (ADK) is only 1 hr from Albany.

-Farley Ledges, MA: 2 hr (East)
-Little Falls, NY: 1 hr (West)
-Folsom Quarry, VT: 2 hr (Northeast)
-Rumeny Rocks, NH: 3.5hr

• **Thatcher Park (Opens Spring 2016): 15mins from Albany

Ice:

Catskills: 1hr (South)
ADK's: 2 hr (North)
Plotterkill: 30mins (West)
Smugglers Notch,VT: 3.5hr (North)
New Hampshire: 3-4hr (Northeast)

There have been a few interesting and noteworthy points here:

There is much more to consider other than climbing. I've been living in one of those towns for over a decade and a few things are unavoidable: shorter winter days, hotter summer days, shoulder seasons, burn out. You're not going to be climbing 300 days a year or after work every day unless a gym is involved.

I'm a bit biased, but, the Seacoast area of NH has UNH and is as good as any of the climbing mecca towns on your list. Locally, it has P-way and several gyms. The lakes region is 45 minutes, Conway areas and Rumney are 1.5 hours. Within weekend striking distance: Acadia, the Daks, the Gunks, Western Maine, the Catskills, Western Mass, Vermont. I'd say well over 15,000 routes. And that's only rock..

Austin TX - some beta

I've lived here 14 years, been a climber for 5

The good

Year round sport climbing literally inside the city. Sure it's hot, really hot, and humid in the summer, but folks still get out climbing all the time. You'll get used to it.

The climbing scene is open, friendly, and full of great people. Being a university town, the HQ of some large corporations, and possessing lots of tech opportunity means you'll find climbers from diverse backgrounds, and you're sure to find "your crew", or more likely, many crews.

2 new gyms are coming, both should be fantastic.

El Potrero Chico is 6.5 hours drive

Enchanted Rock is 2 hours drive, but your only established trad climbing destination

It's a hell of a fun place to live!

The bad

An issue brought up in an earlier post in this thread, though not specific to Austin: There are very, very few major climbing destinations that are accessible over a regular weekend. You can hit the Potrero and the Wichitas in about 6 hours drive. If you extend your radius to 10 hours, you open up Hueco, southeast New Mexico, and Arkansas. And that's it. I don't know anybody willing to drive further for a weekend.

Of course, these are just the established areas. If you're into developing new areas, and are adept at relationship building, there's a lot of unclimbed stuff in Texas, though much of it is private. Also, there's other opportunity to get outside and have fun, but we're talking climbing only here, so that's where I'll leave it.

I will add, the airport is incredibly efficient and easy to access and can get you where you need to go without too much hassle, though sometimes you'll need to connect through the Dallas/Houston/Denvers of the world.

In the end, two things are going to end up forcing me out of this fantastic city. One is traffic, and the other is the isolation. You're in the dead middle of a massive, massive state. And that, for someone with a regular work schedule, prevents weekends of climbing adventure, save for what's been mentioned above. It's certainly worth considering, if you're the type that likes to load up the truck and take a 3 or 4 day weekend somewhere more remote.

All the towns that you put in Illinois should be erased. If you are a true climber you will not let yourself live in Evanston, Chicago, or Urbana, all are extremely topographically depressing. You say you want a job with a university and you want to be close to climbing..... dude, Carbondale IL is the place if your looking in Illinois. Its extremely close to a lot of good trad and sport climbing, plus if you ever got the itch, Holy Boulders are nearby.

Update your list ASAP!