Leader's Pack - Design Survey

the shoulder straps look a bit wide for me.

looks good though!

Ray and Brady, here is how I intend to make belt attachment.

Double back

easily adjustable

Cristoph

my straps are a little wider than most other usa brands and everyone who has given me feedback seems to love how they function. I personally like how they both carry loads and climb well.

That said I'm always tinkering and will play with some other styles.

This thread is a project manager's nightmare. You're introducing scope creep that will fundamentally change your product. Strip away all extraneous features, maintain durability, control cost (limit cost/price point). You can't compete with the scale of large brands. Most of the suggestions you received are from people who won't buy your pack (ice tool loops) so focus on your original concept and actual buyers.

Unless you want to change the functionality of the pack, the only suggestion(s) I've seen that aligns with your objective is deleting the side zipper and perhaps fit. I want to buy your pack but if your final product is the same as Patagonia I'll buy theirs over yours (their value proposition is better than yours if the features are identical).

Andrew Blease wrote:I'd buy it as is ASAP. Let me know when you want to sell some.

+1. I'll take one too!

One punter's take:

1. It's beautiful, quality looks v. high, nice job
2. Don't add any "features"
3. Eliminate the side zipper
4. Shoulder straps don't look dialed (in pics)

These answers are from the perspective of one who'd use it for long routes in the Valley (meaning inevitable chimneys/wide) or long C2C days in the mountains (lots of mileage, lots of movement, lightweight and comfort key)

If I saw it hanging on a rack in a store, amidst the 100 other over-featured packs out there, I'd pick it up and check it out. Side zipper would mean I'd put it back - just no way it'll stand up to physical granite pitches. Price would matter, too, but I'd pay a (small) premium for an artisanal/non-corporate piece I knew was made by somebody in the community.

LET US KNOW ABOUT SALES/PRICE ALL THAT JAZZ

csproul wrote: This. I want something simple if I'm going to wear it while leading. No waist strap. No sternum strap. No pockets on the straps. A simple pack with no bells and whistles. The haul loops look useful. I'd be fine without the axe loops, but then again, I'd probably take a different pack altogether when leading ice.

I agree! Its great as it is, as soon as you start adding things there are more opportunities to snag. Keep it clean and simple at a low price and I'm sure you'll sell them.

Thanks for putting this out to us, Josh. Super interesting to get a peek into your process. I took the survey.

I've only ever used a wimpy REI flash, and am looking forward to upgrading. The problem I have with that pack that everything tends to fall to the bottom. I would have the same worry with this pack. I see that the side-access zipper attempts to solve this problem, and would be intrigued to know how it works in practice--care to tell us more about it?

From the pictures, it looks like the compression clip is non-adjustable, is that the case? I would think an adjustable clip would accommodate different-sized loads better and let you put a rope over the top (my preferred method), with the downside that it adds a strap flapping around.

Overall, congrats on making a sleek, beautiful pack. It's nice to see a minimalist, functional aesthetic on outdoor gear. Definitely on my shortlist of packs to check out when my current one dies (soon, probably).

I think a nice design idea might be to have a loop in the back built in to slide a chalk bag style belt into. That way the waist belt would be optional, but I personally probably wouldn't use it.

I like it. I would also echo the sentiment of "keep it simple."

The only thing I would add is maybe a more vented back panel. Doesn't have to be complicated, just a piece of wicking fabric or something. The current design looks a bit hot, but I could be wrong...you've tested it, did you think so?

Two four loop daisy chains side by side, allowing the 'spine' pack to be lashed to the approach pack,
or to attach tools or to three point haul the thing through the Harding slot.

Yes keep it simple but options that come with attachment points can make a big difference.
If you put a strap at the bottom to clip the trail or zip line to it could be wall worthy.

With todays zipper technology, if you tucked the zipperS behind a Velcro flap, for added beefiness, It could open flat for an emergency bivy pad.

Just following others' sentiments, but for me:

This pack is too specific for me, I want it, but since money doesn't fall off trees, I'd suffice with my Ascentionist 35L which is my goto climbing pack (to wear while climbing).

Don't do ice axe loops, absolutely unnecessary, YMMV, but 20L is too small for an ice day, so this niche design is not serving that market.

Don't do a waistbelt, I stripped mine off my 35L and never looked back, in my opinion, the weight of that volume is too small to be concerned with load securement, a properly stuffed and cinched (to the body) pack will do just fine

The foam in the back panel just needs to be minimal, and does not need to be removable, again a load of that size doesn't require extensive padding or support.

Remove the side zip, keep it simple, top-loader is fine, that zipper isn't really gaining you any access anyway.

Rope catch for up top is good.

Nylon eyelets for a custy to attach his own daisy is GREAT. I would 100% use that. For those random days when you need to stuff one more thing, or more importantly, so I could keep my shoes on the outside of my pack on the way down.

Shoulder strap compartments, I'm on the fence, really can't see myself using them. For small items, a bar to grab, etc, those go into a pants' pocket, zipped or not, anything larger/ bulkier say a headlamp, I want that secured in my pack.

Internal zip pocket is MANDATORY (wasn't sure if you were speaking of removing that feature)

Cool pack man! Looks great too!

Tom Sherman wrote:... Don't do ice axe loops, absolutely unnecessary, YMMV, but 20L is too small for an ice day, so this niche design is not serving that market...

NOPE. Ice tool loops are a must for every pack. ;)

Zac.St.Jules wrote: NOPE. Ice tool loops are a must for every pack. ;)

every pack?

How many stitches per inch?

I recently bought on of your prototype packs and while I haven't used it that much I expect to wear it out over the next 10 years. So far, I'm really impressed. It lacks the sternum strap and waist belt but I can't say I miss them. Your shoulder straps are brilliant! They work exactly as they should. Thin, wide material and they don't skate around on my shoulders. The pack doesn't seem to impair my head mobility either. The packbag material is tough, but not overly heavy and it's a super simple pack - just like I wanted. I call it the best leader's / summit / day pack I've used. I'm super happy with it. And no, I don't know Josh, I'm just an impressed customer.

Tom Sherman wrote: every pack?

Basically what you described in your previous post IS that "my little pony" pack. So why not just buy that for $9.99 rather than you're $100 ascentionist.

Zac.St.Jules wrote: Basically what you described in your previous post IS that "my little pony" pack. So why not just buy that for $9.99 rather than you're $100 ascentionist.

Sounds like josh's pack isn't for you.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: Sounds like josh's pack isn't for you.

Thats probably true. :)

I'm not sure I would change much. I have other packs with more features... but simple is good. It rides nice and high and with the chest strap down low does not flop around w/o a waist strap.

Helmet mounted thru tabs

Top view

My standard trad kit fits nicely