Mountain Project Logo

New bolts at Crow Hill

Derek Jf · · Northeast · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 335
mattyo wrote: I'm done here. I'm gonna go watch vertical limit to unwind.
don't leave us here to perish....
Rich Brereton · · Pownal, ME · Joined May 2009 · Points: 175

Wow. That is a truly nauseating video Dana posted. If there was ever a spark of desire in me to attempt a headpoint of Dune before, it is extinguished now. I kept imagining the climber splatting in front of horrified dog-walkers passing by. Despite it not being my thing, I still think there should be a place in climbing for dangerous headpoints and traditional ethics crags like Crow. Climbing culture is diverse and I hope it stays that way, because it would be boring otherwise.

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911

I wonder how Kenny will feel when Dol Goldor gets 20 bolts put in it. You should ask him Gesek.

Jonathan Haggerty · · West Acton, MA · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 195
Eric Engberg wrote: Beats me. I think he only had to contend with(actual) dinosaurs...
Eric, here's the flaw in the argument in full circle. You stated earlier that the "community" dictates the laws of each area. The old guard seem to be calling the shots with no regard to the view of the larger community that believes in crazy things like: the wishes of the FA, safety, pure lines, and access.

To the fools saying this is "a safe top rope", you are out of your God damn mind. Go climb at Quincy quarries or somewhere else with 0 potential. This activity is building, and your ignorance is completely founded on personal feelings; not the community you seem to speak for.

Who knew rock climbing had so many parallels to larger national debates. Chop bolts and send the Mexicans away! Open your eyes, the debate isn't settled and the bolts shouldn't have been chopped.
Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 422
Jonathan Haggerty wrote:...with no regard to the view of the larger community...
More like with no regard to the view of the lowest common denominator.
Jonathan Haggerty · · West Acton, MA · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 195

Healyje, congrats on climbing 5.11x. You must be the most important person on this thread!

Do you guys really think anyone will be climbing at crow hill after someone rips out the trad acceptable-rusty-piece-of-shit piton at the top of dune? How about the bad bolts that remain in the area?

State parks don't like death falls. Perhaps I should get that in writing to appease you?

Eric Engberg · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 0

State parks don't like death falls. Perhaps I should get that in writing to appease you?

Actually the MA state parks don't like drilling. It's technically illegal to place a bolt there.

Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 422

Fixed pro - both pins and bolts - need to be maintained. Maybe someone should check it and either deem it fine, reset it, or replace it.

Jonathan Haggerty · · West Acton, MA · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 195

All I'm getting at is this debate is unclear since ONLY the 5.13 gets this attention. Chop everything or humor the debate.

S. Neoh · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 35
Healyje wrote:Fixed pro - both pins and bolts - need to be maintained. Maybe someone should check it and either deem it fine, reset it, or replace it.
Truth. Eric, honestly, I worry about the stiff nylon slings at the anchors of Jane and other climbs. Chains and/or q-links would be better and not all that costly.
Also, I marvel at the amount of fanfare here over the presumably removal of these bolts. I could be wrong but I cannot imagine JM protesting all that much after his bolts were chopped. He likely thought "F*$# it, I have already led Dune with the bolts in place. Whatever."
Even more remarkable is I do not recall all that much commotion and comments after Dune, then Absolute were led without bolts. Did I miss something?
Jonathan Haggerty · · West Acton, MA · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 195

S Neoh, what's your point?

-Put on chains on sketchy pitons?
-Nobody cares when people climb former sport routes on gear?
-People care about Dune getting bolted?

Agreed...

S. Neoh · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 35

If Eric says anchor pins and pitons are regularly checked and maintained, then I am OK with them. Nylon tat on the other hand ....

Eric Engberg · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 0
S. Neoh wrote:If Eric says anchor pins and pitons are regularly checked and maintained, then I am OK with them. Nylon tat on the other hand ....
I haven't been there that much in the last 5 years so I can't say absolutely what the current protocol is. Used to be that the fixed gear - the midpoint Jane anchor being the most obvious - were checked regularly. I was up there this past May and things looked good. The "tat" there is actually solid 1 inch webbing quadroopled (sp?) up - pretty beefy. I wonder when the last time the protection bolts or anchor bolts on the first pitch of Fool on the Hill were really given the once over.

The bottom line is that a lot of the important players - SA, Mallory, TK Jr, Peter V.. and who ever placed the new bolts haven't been heard from - so we are all making assumptions.
S. Neoh · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 35

I wonder when the last time the protection bolts or anchor bolts on the first pitch of Fool on the Hill were really given the once over.
Good point. Hmmm.

Jonathan Haggerty · · West Acton, MA · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 195

Someone send them the mountain project court summons.

It's fitting that people are now pointing fingers at the "experts" who haven't been local in years for the final judgement. If we all assume someone more knowledgeable is overseeing our safety, we are clearly overstating how much they care.

Maybe we could all get behind some sort of coherent ethical standing before the next bolt war?

Do we care about safety, environmental impact, how the rock looks, or bragging rights?

Dana Seaton · · Rhode Island · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 2,526

Not sure if it matters at this point but I have an email in my inbox from John stating that he feels the bolts should go back into Dune. It's a few years old but that's how he feels. I do not feel the need to cut and paste the email in this forum but take my word on it.

javd von dauber · · East Brookfield MA · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 91
T Roper wrote:I wonder how Kenny will feel when Dol Goldor gets 20 bolts put in it. You should ask him Gesek.
That's funny shit .... I just figured out my weekend plans.
BCavanaugh · · boston,ma · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 155

jeezlus. you would think that someone purposely under inflated these bolts the way this witchhunt is going..

Who ever placed the bolts should have contacted the FA'er to get their permission IMO. I do find it very odd that some routes at CH have bolts and others do not. And why the Jane rats nest can't be a steel anchor?

Eric8 · · Maynard, MA · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 310
BCavanaugh wrote: I do find it very odd that some routes at CH have bolts and others do not. And why the Jane rats nest can't be a steel anchor?
This has been my point all along. I have come to the realization that its just (mostly) climbers climbing on the easier routes who like those bolts but will not tolerate bolts on a harder route they will never climb.

And that anchor on Jane, is just there for convenience so people don't have to climb to the top of the cliff via G rated crack climbing. At least bolts on Dune would provide some actual safety.
Reggie Pawle · · Boston, MA · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 5
Eric8 wrote:I have come to the realization that its just (mostly) climbers climbing on the easier routes who like those bolts but will not tolerate bolts on a harder route they will never climb.
I guess that's the heart of the disagreement. That's why I think it's more about the accepted style of an area than what the first person to scope a line decides. Adam Ondra could go to Adrspach and bolt a line no one else could climb, right? That would seem to violate local ethics. Ultimately there's nothing traditionalists can do about it except speak up, because chopping is pretty uncool, too. If people want to bolt, they will. Just seems unfair, you know? There's lots of sport climbing areas.

I actually haven't stated a stance on Dune. Not too hard to guess where I stand, but I'm not intimate with the route and area enough to say whether the bolts should be put in or not. But I do think it's important to be careful in deciding whether it be bolted or not, because the effect of any consensus is long-lasting.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Northeastern States
Post a Reply to "New bolts at Crow Hill"

Log In to Reply

Join the Community

Create your FREE account today!
Already have an account? Login to close this notice.

Get Started.