Thoughts on Chasing Grades

r m wrote:At the gym, there's little satisfaction to be had other than by climbing a previously unattained grade.

Other metrics for progress at the gym:

• Climbing a previously difficult route with more ease (like a redpoint).
• Number of laps on a hard route before pumping out.
• Total number of seconds spent resting on the wall during a route ;-).

Kent Richards wrote: Other metrics for progress at the gym:

Date with the hottie in the booty shorts lined up.
Unsolicited digits slyly slipped into hand by the fit yoga pants girl.
Bro brahs putting their shirts back on because they are embarassed by your superior physique.
Overheard behind you as you crush, "damn that dude is STRONG!"

;^)

Having "projects" as personal goals and challenges in one's progression as a climber is fun to be around. "Chasing grades" as a publicly displayed ego trip makes for a crappy climbing partner.

Will S wrote: Date with the hottie in the booty shorts lined up. Unsolicited digits slyly slipped into hand by the fit yoga pants girl. Bro brahs putting their shirts back on because they are embarassed by your superior physique. Overheard behind you as you crush, "damn that dude is STRONG!" ;^)

• Number of fist-bumps per hour.
• The V-grades of the climbers who share their chalk bucket with you.

Will S wrote: Good point, it is a difference, the OP seems to be talking more about climbing harder in general though, rather than number chasing per-se.

No, I'm talking about chasing the grades. There are days when I climb hard, and days when I cruise and enjoy being outdoors. If you were to look at my tick list you'd see the three V0s I did yesterday, but you won't see the two V3s I worked on for hours but couldn't quite get. That's nothing to some people, but it was hard for me. One of them was a really interesting problem that if I were climbing much harder, I may not have looked at at all. No doubt there were some good problems below the V3 threshold of my friend that we missed out on, because they weren't V3, but that's compromise.

Will S - do you know whose quote that is - "the best climber is the one having the most fun" - ???
That was Alex Lowe. Hardly a climber who "sucked" or was looking for excuses....

JeanGClimbs wrote:Will S - do you know whose quote that is - "the best climber is the one having the most fun" - ??? That was Alex Lowe. Hardly a climber who "sucked" or was looking for excuses....

Who? Never heard of him. And certainly never shared a rope with him in Blodgett Canyon 20-some years ago.

That awful quote has been used and overused to justify weak shit since it got said. It's a perfect example of an extremely high end guy trying to say something nice and it unfortunately got away from him.

It'd be like releasing a bunch of pretty white doves who then overbreed and outcompete the local songbird population, now all you've got left is a bunch of shit filled sky rats. That Alex Lowe quote is a shit filled sky rat is what I'm saying. If he could release a bunch of ghost falcons to reign it in, I'm sure he would.

For an Alex Lowe-less discussion of chasing grades, it really should come down to personal choice. Do you want to chuffle your fat up to the crag and make easier moves than getting started on a walker? Cool, now shut the fuck up. Also, do you want to spend your life relentlessly training and dieting in pursuit of the uber hard send (which subsequently got downrated and a 13 year old didn't think moved that well)? Cool, leave the fat guys alone. I believe there is room for you both.

Hubris chases grades...and sprays about it. Humbleness says things like "the best climber is the one having the most fun". Lots of hubris here. I'll throw my lot in with the Alex Lowe camp any day.

Mathias wrote: No, I'm talking about chasing the grades...One of them was a really interesting problem that if I were climbing much harder, I may not have looked at at all.

There are plenty of interesting problems regardless of grades, but most "interesting" problems are interesting precisely because you still lack the technical skill/familiarity to solve it. More than likely, interesting movements for a V3 will not be so interesting at a higher level. Harder climbs are rarely just harder...

reboot wrote: There are plenty of interesting problems regardless of grades, but most "interesting" problems are interesting precisely because you still lack the technical skill/familiarity to solve it. More than likely, interesting movements for a V3 will not be so interesting at a higher level. Harder climbs are rarely just harder...

That's pretty much one of the thoughts I've been considering; that if I were to push the grades and gain two or three, I'd likely be less interesting in a lot of problems that currently I DO find interesting. And that I find interesting not just because they're hard (I've passed up on many I just didn't find appealing) but also some what of a puzzle. So would I be robbing myself of fun challenges by trying to push for those higher grades rather than working up to them slowly and doing more of those problems at the lower grade?. The answer is obviously a personal thing but I thought it'd be worth discussing, and obviously I wanted to hear other people's perspectives, which is why I posted. Some people seem driven to better themselves by working through the numbers, and I see nothing wrong in that at all. Other's seem content to just climb at the same level, nothing wrong with that either. It seems like most are somewhere between, which is where I seem to find myself too. And now that I've had time to contemplate it, I'm just fine with that.

Did you just make the argument that climbing harder would be robbing yourself of enjoyment?

I guess you're right?

Is learning about basic science robbing a child of the magic of magnets?

I guess it does.

Will S wrote:...If you don't want to be good at something that you proclaim to love, I have no particular desire to be around you. Not in recreation, not in work/career, not in anything. Lazy no-talent excuse-making clowns are dime a dozen...

Yeah...I'm probably one of those no-talent excuse-making clowns - when it comes to climbing.

My primary focus is work, sometimes the work day alone can be exhausting, sometimes its the hours spent at home learning new things or trying to come up with solutions for that problem at work.
(Look, an excuse^ ;)

We all have a finite amount of effort we can expend, we just opt to spend that effort in different ways

I climb for my own enjoyment, with my own set of bizarre goals that don't extend past 5.10.

I find it curious that you frame people entirely in their climbing aspirations, there's a lot more to people than what they do in our contrived pointless sport.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote:Did you just make the argument that climbing harder would be robbing yourself of enjoyment? I guess you're right? Is learning about basic science robbing a child of the magic of magnets?

If that's what you want to take away from what I said, you can absolutely do that. It's not what I meant and I'm fairly confident you know that (though I guess it's possible you missed my point entirely). Making parallels between climbing hard or not and children finding magnets magical sounds like what you're really saying is that if someone doesn't climb hard they're swimming in the kiddy pool. But then maybe I missed YOUR point.

Nivel Egres wrote: Climbing hard is fun. Failing at your limit and trying again is awesome fun. Actually getting up something that 3-4 years ago was a pipe dream is outright orgasmic. If by chasing the grades the OP means "using the grades to track my progress" then yeah, I am chasing the grades. Unlike other guys that chimed in, I don't climb hard at all. My best redpoint last year was 7c - with age and health ganging up on me, I don't know if I can ever get above that. But I will certainly try and trying will be a ton of fun.

That's awesome! I'm always happy to see improvement in myself. I'm glad you're enjoying yours. But no, I don't mean tracking your progress. That's why I got an MP account in the first place; to keep track of my own progress (at the suggestion of my mentor). What I mean by "chasing the grades" is achieving a certain grade, and then pushing straight for the next, and still looking ahead to attaining the grade after that. For example, if you said 7c is your current limit, but by the end of next year you want to be redpointing 8b, I'd consider that chasing the grades. And again, I'm not saying it's bad or wrong. I'm simply asking if the lower grades become less fun or not worth doing because you can climb so much harder.

>> So would I be robbing myself of fun challenges by trying to push for those higher grades rather than working up to them slowly and doing more of those problems at the lower grade?


So I wouldn't consider it robbing you of fun challenges. There are more challenges out there than you can shake a stick at. At any grade you can find them. I could also say that holding yourself back psychologically into low ratings robs you of many more fun challenges than chasing ratings ever could.

I don't think there is any reason not to climb harder, at least up to a point. The falls will generally be safer. The routes less crowded. The ability to spray: I did the Naked Edge(or other local ultra classic). Everyone is at least a tiny bit vain.

Scott E. wrote:Hubris chases grades...and sprays about it. Humbleness says things like "the best climber is the one having the most fun". Lots of hubris here. I'll throw my lot in with the Alex Lowe camp any day.

I'll admit to hubris if you admit that telling everyone you are being more humble than they are is a paradox. I should know, I came up with it. That and humility. Humility was all me.

Eliot Augusto wrote:>> I'll admit to hubris if you admit that telling everyone you are being more humble than they are is a paradox. I should know, I came up with it. That and humility. Humility was all me.

Oooh, climbing friend,

this appear to be fight of internet wang-slap style.

Eliot, I never said anything about my being humble. I merely made a statement about the type of person I would rather climb with. I know quite a few very humble climbers that are projecting hard 13's whom you would never know are working on stuff like that because they do not feel they need to make a strong and public presence based on it. That is humble. I feel that "chasing the grade" is a public endeavor while projecting is a private one. Me, I flail on 10b, but I do very much enjoy the drive of trying the hardest that I possibly can, and progressing. I call that projecting or training, depending on the context. I climb with people that overwhelm me with the details of their last greatest send AND THE GRADE in big bold letters, and I climb with people that calmly walk up to a shockingly difficult route and quietly crush it. I prefer the latter.

Who is the best skier on the mountain? The one drinking beer at the bar and having the most fun?

We participate in a seriously weird sport boys.

Aleks...my hero and hopeful climbing friend! You can internet wang-slap me anytime! It is an honor!