Codgey Conservative Climber or Bad Biner Businessman

Slightly Paintshopped screenshot of actual Ebay listing. (Not original listing, which was modified a bit after I first contacted the seller.)

I almost fell into a flame war when I questioned an Ebay seller about some 'biners that show significant wear. Now, I know that I would not buy their gear or climb on it if I saw it on my partner's rack, but I am not the authority of everything and I'd like a little of the general climbing public's opinion on this one.

Are digs and deep scuffs on the rope surface of a carabiner normal wear?
(I have never seen that on my own gear.)

Is there any information out there that can be used as a guideline to determine whether used gear is "structurally sound" ?

Should we all be horrified that some 15-year-old kid might buy this gear and kill him or herself?

Finally, I am a mechanical engineer with access to fancy computers and do-hickeys. I will probably go out and buy one of these carabiners (new), model the thing up in CAD and run a bunch of analyses for my own personal interest. If someone else already has one of these biners (Mammut Mythos HMS in whatever condition) and is willing to send it to me for measuring and modeling, please PM me. Also, depending on whether that takes a long time and yields any useful results, I may do a bunch more personal (not authoritative) studies, so feel free to PM me about other questionable gear.

Julio,

I have grooved lockers from toproping. It's a real judgment call as to how much (deep) grooving renders a carabiner unsafe. Sharp edges or burrs are no bueno.

But at the $20 price listed for that carabiner, why wouldn't you just buy a new one, rather than a used one on Ebay?

There is no way to tell if a biner is good unless you pull test it. But I think you are being overly cautious -- biners don't break unless they are caught on the nose on the bolt or something. Something like this is going to be used as anchors or a belay biner. It is going to be good enough even with a big dent.

That said, there is no way I'd pay $20 for a used biner in that condition, so the fact that the seller thinks his biner is worth that much is raising alarms.

For having nothing better to do, googled Mammut HSM autolockers. The cheapest one was USD15.95

Hi Frank,

I was interested in the biners because I thought the posting was two (fancy twist locks) for twenty, and I'm always open to a good deal. After seeing the gouges, I am definitely not going to buy those listed.

Now, the real question I have is whether there's a reason to be upset over someone else selling gear I would never use to someone else I will likely never meet.

Also, I would like to know whether anyone else has seen this type of gouge from normal use. I've seen biners wear from a toprope, but that has always appeared smooth and about the diameter of the rope. To me these look like gouges or steel cable marks (or maybe biner to biner marks?) or something.

Closeup of biner from ad.

Looks like it could be from a bolt hanger.

It is perfectly normal and safe, but a huge rip off. Just don't use that end on your rope.

I thought this would be a thread about Tony B.

The shape/size of the wear makes me wonder if they were used with wire cable, either on via ferrata or on a high ropes course.

Julio Payan wrote:Hi Frank, I was interested in the biners because I thought the posting was two (fancy twist locks) for twenty, and I'm always open to a good deal. After seeing the gouges, I am definitely not going to buy those listed. Now, the real question I have is whether there's a reason to be upset over someone else selling gear I would never use to someone else I will likely never meet. Also, I would like to know whether anyone else has seen this type of gouge from normal use. I've seen biners wear from a toprope, but that has always appeared smooth and about the diameter of the rope. To me these look like gouges or steel cable marks (or maybe biner to biner marks?) or something.

Those wear/damage marks aren't from normal toproping, but it still looks OK. From looking at the ad, it sounds like they are $20 each, with two available.

Again, I wouldn't buy used carabiners, unless there was some incredible price. Even then, it's caveat emptor.

I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to sell it, unless the seller knows it's defective or unsafe.

I also saw that and told him I don't think they are safe. He said he would describe the damage but was still selling them