Epic Rescue
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This contrasts vividly with the uninjured team who got lost on a descent out of Eldo in the dark a few weeks back and called S&R instead of sitting it out till dawn. |
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SeanG81 wrote: 99%....really? I'm not looking to argue or anything but some of the rock there is pretty soft...Its probably not that hard to rip good placements. Great job getting yourselves out of a jam! Hopefully you get your gear back.I'm always amused when people say "good placement in soft rock". Um, that's an oxymoron. Solid rock is one of the important factors that makes a placement "good". Placements is soft rock are suspect placements, not good placements. Of course, that may be the best you can get at times. Semantics I guess. Great to know there are self reliant teams out there! |
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Sorry to hear of the injury and I hope you get your gear back. |
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Royal wrote:...I find the idea that your injured party was experienced and the fact that he ripped gear somewhat mutually exclusive.My memory of the top of that route is that it's kind of sandy in places and there's not always pro available. I could easily see an experienced climber pulling gear up high on Dark Shadows. Sometimes your options are limited. |
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Craig Childre wrote: ... did he know how to escape the belay? Ascend the rope on prussiks?Good skills to have. Beyond that, making the decision to do it is the crux of the whole thing. Heading up can introduce pretty serious fall potential (depending on the above protection system and difficulty of climbing). |
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"The injured person had a cracked vertebrae, three broken ribs and a badly broken elbow." |
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Oh, the joys of internet second-guessing! |
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Well done on the self rescue. Hope your friend heals quickly and you get your gear back. |
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coppolillo wrote:Oh, the joys of internet second-guessing! Sure, could've killed him....could've let him die on a ledge in the middle of the night, too. Could've placed better gear. Could've placed more gear! Etcetera etcetera... Glad nobody got too jacked up. Sounds like you guys are doing a good debriefing on your own and learning whatever needs learning. Keep your rescue skills dialed, do a WFR, etc. Drown out the clowns, learn from the rest, see you guys out climbing again soon! RCI'm not second guessing, and I wasn't there, so be the first to admit I don't have the all the same information that went into their decision making process. In reality it was probably too windy for a helicopter rescue. Everyone just seems rah..rah...rah...self rescue. I'm all in support of being self sufficient, But in the case of a possible MOI for a spinal injury, consequences of trying to self rescue can be high. I'm stoked it all turned out ok for this group! |
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Doug Foust wrote: I'm not second guessing, and I wasn't there, so be the first to admit I don't have the all the same information that went into their decision making process. In reality it was probably too windy for a helicopter rescue. Everyone just seems rah..rah...rah...self rescue. I'm all in support of being self sufficient, But in the case of a possible MOI for a spinal injury, consequences of trying to self rescue can be high. I'm stoked it all turned out ok for this group!Yeah. Cuz you can totally tell from the internet the severity of his spinal injury. Yet he walked out. Hmmm |
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Greg D wrote: Yeah. Cuz you can totally tell from the internet the severity of his spinal injury. Yet he walked out. HmmmNo, I can't tell from the internet. But the possibility of an injury to the spine can yield serious consequences. There is a standard back country assessment that can be performed(focused spine assessment) Just because he can walk doesn't mean he doesn't have a spine injury. He ended up having a fractured vertebrae....if that broken bone damages the spinal column, he can end up being pretty messed up. and by cuz...do you think I'm your cousin or do you mean because? |
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Cuz seemed more appropriate based on your comments. |
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Doug Foust wrote: Everyone just seems rah..rah...rah...self rescue. I'm all in support of being self sufficient, But in the case of a possible MOI for a spinal injury, consequences of trying to self rescue can be high.+1 ============================= nols.edu/nolspro/pdf/WFRInf… Focused Spinal Assessment If :
Then release ============================= Doug Foust wrote: Just because he can walk doesn't mean he doesn't have a spine injury.+1 |
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Anyone care to stoop so low and explain with words how to do a focused spinal assessment? Am I releasing vertebrae or the patient? |
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dannl wrote:Anyone care to stoop so low and explain with words how to do a focused spinal assessment? Am I releasing vertebrae or the patient?Take the WFR class offered by NOLS WMI and they teach it. I know no one on MP wants to pay near $700 for a 10 day course, but it is well worth it. In short, you find or witness someone injury themselves. Perform ABCDE's of the first part of the patient assessment and determine if there is a possibility of MOI for spinal injury. If there is, you stabilize the head, neck and spine. Perform rest of initial patient assessment. Come up with course of plan for treatment which for positive MOI for spinal injury will most likely include the Focus Spine Assessment. If they pass, it is considered safe to release stabilizing the head, neck, and spine. This is a certification and one should look for proper instruction for an educated teacher to perform this. It's too detailed to cover on this forum but I gave you a general idea. |
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dannl wrote:Anyone care to stoop so low and explain with words how to do a focused spinal assessment?Video at wildmedcenter.com/blog/the-… |
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I still praise the work they did to self rescue. Most importantly I don't criticise their decision based on information that only cam to light after x-rays in a hospital. |
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MOI doesn't predict spinal cord injury. What does predict it is post-injury numbness, tingling, lack of sensation, weakness or inability to move portions of the body below the anatomical point on the spinal column where the injury is. Even when fractured, the spinal column is very good at stabilizing itself via muscle spasm, conscious restriction of movement, etc. With none of those present, lacking other incapacitating injury or intoxication, he's fine to walk out. |
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Doug Foust wrote: I'm not second guessing, ...When you wrote: "I'm all for self rescue, but you could have paralyzed or killed your buddy. Did any of you have medical training?" - that is exactly what you were doing. |
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I like all the second guessing about the spinal cord injury. I just want to him on the " good job" bandwagon. If you have an alert, oriented patient with no symptoms of an SCI I think you guys did the right thing. A lot of these people second guessing you are a lot of the reason why SAR teams are so busy in this country. |