Rain and Safety

Matt Kuehl wrote:I'm sorry but I just don't think blantantly calling people assholes is acceptable. It creates unnecessary hostility in the climbing community that we are trying to inform. Why would someone listen to another person who just blatantly insulted them? Or insulted them unknowingly on an online forum? It would be much easier to respect the opinion of a fellow climber if they talked with respect and as equals to each other. What might seem obvious to some, perhaps isn't' to others. Sorry if my opinion is unpopular but I just don't like the tone that arises when it comes to climbing after rain. I understand this is a serious issue, so lets try to handle it seriously. I talked to the BLM office today and disscused if they would be willing to post official signs at the pullouts/campground clearly explaining the regulations/recommendations for climbing after precipitation. From what I gathered it sounds like signage is in the works and will hopefully be displayed before the Rendezvous. It's a step in the right direction IMO. That might help keep those wonderful, peaceful, and WELCOME visiting climbers informed about the seriousness and detrimental effects of climbing after precipitation. Of course I mean no disrespect to anyone, I just think we could handle things differently as a community.

Ignorance is no excuse.

Its common knowledge that you dont climb wet sandstone and I bet all those out climbing knew better but thought they were the exception to the rule. This would make them assholes.

DexterRutecki wrote: Ignorance is no excuse. Its common knowledge that you dont climb wet sandstone and I bet all those out climbing knew better but thought they were the exception to the rule. This would make them assholes.

I don't know if it's common knowledge necessarily. Maybe to those of us who've been climbing for a while, but if you're new to climbing, straight out of the gym, or what have you, I'd say there's a fair chance that you wouldn't know about the conditions of wet sandstone. And i'm not saying everyone who John saw climbing fit that bill, probably some of 'em were assholes, but I'd be willing to bet at least a few had no idea they were doing anything wrong. All that being said, ignorance is a poor excuse and people should make more of an effort to educate themselves about the area before risking damage to it, but then again this could be said for a lot of activities, not just climbing.

Seth Derr wrote: I don't know if it's common knowledge necessarily. Maybe to those of us who've been climbing for a while, but if you're new to climbing, straight out of the gym, or what have you, I'd say there's a fair chance that you wouldn't know about the conditions of wet sandstone. And i'm not saying everyone who John saw climbing fit that bill, probably some of 'em were assholes, but I'd be willing to bet at least a few had no idea they were doing anything wrong. All that being said, ignorance is a poor excuse and people should make more of an effort to educate themselves about the area before risking damage to it, but then again this could be said for a lot of activities, not just climbing.

Hmmm I highly doubt this was these peoples first day out of the gym.... Nice idea though. Ignorance is no excuse and as has been said it is printed in the visitors brochure you get as you come through the park. How much more clear can it be?

It is also stated in guide books, gear shops, any ranger or climber you ask....etc.

DexterRutecki wrote: Hmmm I highly doubt this was these peoples first day out of the gym.... Nice idea though. Ignorance is no excuse and as has been said it is printed in the visitors brochure you get as you come through the park. How much more clear can it be? It is also stated in guide books, gear shops, any ranger or climber you ask....etc.

I get what you're saying. I guess i'd just like to have more faith in people than to think they would show a blatant disregard for the future of the resource. I should know better i guess.

Flying in from Alaska to do some climbing this next week (Feb.26th-Mar. 1st). Weather looks good for Thursday, Friday, and possibly Saturday. On the other hand, it looks like we might have some bad weather on Sunday. Are there any multi pitch limestone or granite climbs in the area between 5.7-5.9 that we could climb that wouldn't hurt the rock if it rains. We noticed the weather forcast for Zion and Joshua Tree are actually worse than Redrock for that same Saturday and Sunday.

Kevin Downie wrote:Flying in from Alaska to do some climbing this next week (Feb.26th-Mar. 1st). Weather looks good for Thursday, Friday, and possibly Saturday. On the other hand, it looks like we might have some bad weather on Sunday. Are there any multi pitch limestone or granite climbs in the area between 5.7-5.9 that we could climb that wouldn't hurt the rock if it rains. We noticed the weather forcast for Zion and Joshua Tree are actually worse than Redrock for that same Saturday and Sunday.

Kevin,

There is Lime Kiln Canyon out of Mesquite. Will be cold but Sacred Trust Wall may have some sun Wednesday and Thursday.

Info at Summit Post and on MP.

Other multi-pitch in this area is at Keyhole Canyon on low angle polished slabs about 1/2 mile south of Keyhole proper; high clearance vehicle is nice for both areas. Another storm coming through on Saturday 2/28.

Thanks for the Info. Doesn't look like a lot of Beta on Lime Kiln Canyon online. Hopefully the weather will hold off and we can get in some nice climbing. This is my first trip to Redrock

At Lime Kiln Canyon: "Office Party" is mostly 5.8 with a bit of 5.9 to 4th or 5th pitch and rap the route with a 70m to be safe. Next line right is also about 5.8 as far as we went.

Current weather report for week of 2/23 through 2/27/2015

wunderground.com/cgi-bin/fi…

screwed up the Paint image but below is the link.

Seth Derr wrote: I don't know if it's common knowledge necessarily.

You're totally correct, this isn't exactly common knowledge among nonclimbers. I fall into the category of those who have no clue about any of this. I've only recently started studying survival, camping, etc, and that led me to start looking for places to practice survival skills near home (Las Vegas). That led me to this site today, and this is the the first time I've read anything about climbing, much less climbing after a rain. I'm sure all of it is common knowledge to those who go climbing every weekend, but everybody has to start some time. Nobody pops out of the womb knowing the difference between sandstone and granite! So, thank you Seth, for sticking up for the humane treatment of newbies!

mikew12345 wrote: You're totally correct, this isn't exactly common knowledge among nonclimbers. I fall into the category of those who have no clue about any of this. I've only recently started studying survival, camping, etc, and that led me to start looking for places to practice survival skills near home (Las Vegas). That led me to this site today, and this is the the first time I've read anything about climbing, much less climbing after a rain. I'm sure all of it is common knowledge to those who go climbing every weekend, but everybody has to start some time. Nobody pops out of the womb knowing the difference between sandstone and granite! So, thank you Seth, for sticking up for the humane treatment of newbies!

Lol practicing survival skills so you came to a rock climbing website and resurrected a 2 year old thread discussing rock climbing after it rains? You obviously don't have much common sense, better to stay in your moms basement and not risk going into the woods.

yesrodcire wrote: Lol practicing survival skills so you came to a rock climbing website and resurrected a 2 year old thread discussing rock climbing after it rains? You obviously don't have much common sense, better to stay in your moms basement and not risk going into the woods.

Why would you make fun of the guy for being psyched about finding MP?

rainy season down in Texas, all our rock is saturated right now. darn limestone is almost as bad as sandstone

FrankPS wrote: Why would you make fun of the guy for being psyched about finding MP?

Just a very odd and strange thing to post. It does seem like common sense to me that a rock climbing forum has nothing to do with "survival skills" and if this is where you are coming you should probably not go outside alone, honest advice.

yesrodcire wrote: Just a very odd and strange thing to post. It does seem like common sense to me that a rock climbing forum has nothing to do with "survival skills" and if this is where are coming you should probably not go outside alone, honest advice.

You are a moron. Without all due respect.

FrankPS wrote: You are a moron. Without all due respect.

None taken :)

yesrodcire wrote: Just a very odd and strange thing to post. It does seem like common sense to me that a rock climbing forum has nothing to do with "survival skills" and if this is where you are coming you should probably not go outside alone, honest advice.

I like it when people tell me I can't or shouldn't do something, it just makes me try 10 times harder. There is truth to your words, I'm a rank beginner and I would be better off staying inside where it's comfortable and warm. But I recently set some goals for myself, and I'll study, practice, and work until I've achieved them. Thanks for your concern.

I'm flying in tonight, any firsthand beta on current conditions? Weather reports look like there's a winter storm warning in effect for higher elevations and rain currently...

Taketaketaketaketake wrote:I'm flying in tonight, any firsthand beta on current conditions? Weather reports look like there's a winter storm warning in effect for higher elevations and rain currently...

Here's a current thread on the situation:

mountainproject.com/v/rain-…

It's been raining ALL day in the valley... so RR for sure got soaked. Tom. rain is possible and sat pretty much guaranteed, looks like climbing in Red Rock is outta the question until at least after Christmas.