Two Way Radio
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my gf has been pushing for us to use radios, and for a while I avoided it, but recently we did a rope stretcher pitch that stretched the rope so tight that our rope tug system (7 tugs means on belay--to avoid confusion with normal tugging) didn't work at all. There was also rope drag making tugs hard. So basically radios will probably happen. I studied for the ham radio license and can get it if I want. I basically want a radio that will be best able to handle situations where the climber goes out of line of sight (still within 200 ft). Any advice? I was looking at the Yaesu vx3, baofeng uv3r, Yaesu vx6/7, baofeng uv5r. Some of the latter have a lot more watts in a slightly larger package. The vx3 is tiny which I like, but if it's tiny and doesn't work well it's worthless. Also I was wondering about the baofeng construction quality being plastic and will it hold up to climbing. Then again if the tougher Yaesu can't withstand climbing, that would be really bad because it would be expensive to replace. |
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Don't think too hard about two-way radios. Get something inexpensive, just make sure it has sub-channels. That way when you're on a serious aid line in the Valley and all the normal channels are clogged with tourist chatter you can still communicate with your belayer. |
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I recently picked up a pair of Motorola Talkabouts for BC skiing and such. Can't say how they compare to the models you're considering but they're light and work great. First day of use I was glad I had them as my buddy lost a ski and I was able to help him find it without standing around wondering where he was for an hour. Definitely a convert to the 'radios are good' camp. |
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The little FRS/GMRS or MURS radios are probably going to serve you best. Ham is overkill if you're just talking to your partner on-route. |
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Pontoon wrote:Also is there any other option for communicating besides cell phones and rope tugs and yelling? Like maybe another type of radio I'm not aware of?Yeah, work out a system and leave the radio toys at home. Maybe even split a pitch into two in certain situations to aid critical communication. Just because your rope is 200' doesn't mean you have to use all of it on every pitch! |
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You want it to be light, otherwise you might not want to use them. |
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im not a fan of radios out here as you can drop them, or have dead batteries |
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I'm kind of interested in so many people being opposed to the use of radios for communication. There so commonly used in BC sking, and even the recent Red Bull video of Will Gadd on niagra included radio conversation. |
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patrick-shyvers, thanks for the advice. I can afford the vx3. To me I would rather learn ham and pay more if the radio works better. I was reading on other forums of people tossing their FRS radios because they didn't work well. Is there any way to help make a ham radio deal with line of sight issues better (different antenna, higher power model, etc)? |
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Pontoon wrote:Like when we had the full rope length pitch, it could have been avoided, but I had topped out and didn't want to down climb 50-100ft to set up s belay lower. Instead she took probably 20 minutes to finally assume she was on belay and climb. Then on our next trip some guides had radios and the system looked pretty appealing. Plus when we were in joshua tree in canyons we were yelling Marco polo to different parts of our group... Radio once again would have been nice.Reread bearbreeder's post. Simplicity and not cluttering things up with additional toys goes a long way in climbing. Regarding the communication in J-Tree - that's a different application and yes, radios could have helped. So could the two groups staying closer together. |
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Pontoon, there are definitely some crummy FRS radios out there. Part of dealing with that, is shopping smart. Another part of dealing with that is using GMRS or MURS- from what I remember, FRS is the worst of the three for the backcountry. bearbreeder wrote:good experience climber should be able to do multipitch with very little communication ... providing they practice it and have the proper procedures in place ... and are in sync ;)See, this is my problem with the "NO RADIOS" stance. The solution is to be experienced? That's convenient, if you're already experienced. But for people who are not experienced, or who are with a new partner, it seems like it can come in handy. FWIW I don't use my radio often. I keep it deep in my leader pack. I wind up using it most in hellish winds and other bad weather. I've also used it a few times to coordinate parties that were out of sight on different objectives. |
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Patrick Shyvers wrote: See, this is my problem with the "NO RADIOS" stance. The solution is to be experienced? That's convenient, if you're already experienced. But for people who are not experienced, or who are with a new partner, it seems like it can come in handy. FWIW I don't use my radio often. I keep it deep in my leader pack. I wind up using it most in hellish winds and other bad weather. I've also used it a few times to coordinate parties that were out of sight on different objectives.my stance on the matter is that the experienced climber should teach new climbers basic techniques and procedures to keep them "safe" and for them to gain experience BEFORE using gear such a radios new climbers tend to fumble and drop things IME ... and you need to be able to function effectively and safely without radios (and any other single piece of gear except the rope) .... with new partners, if both are experienced in multi, a few minutes of conversation and perhaps a practice pitch or two is often enough ... now there are probably good cases for radios in gnarly places or if folks are laying siege to a wall ... but for the multis out here .. almost no one uses a radio and gets by just fine .... except for the moderate bangfest multiroutes full of new leaders dragging up even newer (and cute) seconds ... but thats not a case of needing the gear, but lack of skill and experience i am a firm believe of skill and technique over gear, especially for new climber ... yes radios may help in some cases, but you better be experienced and practiced in what to do if you drop em or forgot to charge the bats ;) |
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I certainly don't advocate depending on them as your first line of communication. For me they are for handling shitty developments. Like, "hey second, I cleared the lip and can see an approaching thunderstorm, we need to bail ten minutes ago" or "wow I can't build a safe anchor here, please don't start climbing". You can handle these things without radios if you need to, of course, but my radio is tiny, and there is safety in good communication. |
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Patrick Shyvers wrote:I certainly don't advocate depending on them as your first line of communication. For me they are for handling shitty developments. Like, "hey second, I cleared the lip and can see an approaching thunderstorm, we need to bail ten minutes ago" or "wow I can't build a safe anchor here, please don't start climbing". You can handle these things without radios if you need to, of course, but my radio is tiny, and there is safety in good communication.patrick ... the problem IME is that you need to have the radio out of the pack with both climbers and constantly turned on in anticipation of these issues and these issues can still be addressed between competent climbers without radios, as folks have done for decades, without the need for radios one thing to remember is that at a certain point on long pitches you will get back visual and audio communication with the climber ... so a radio is often really only useful for the first half of the pitch, by midway you can often communicate with each other radios may make sense in certain situations ... but for trade route multipitches that see alot of traffic, and plenty of folks climb just fine without them ... one should probably develop and practice the essential skills before using additional gear ;) |
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decent inexpensive ham radio. |
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I'm actually a big fan of using radios (I use a pair of motorola MT352s, fwiw). My main climbing partner was skeptical at first, but after one pitch of not having to yell/repeat everything 3 times, he was sold. |
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Ugh is my thought on radios. More clutter, more dicking around. Perhaps for the inexperienced - yeah - there were a few times back when I started climbing that yelling didn't quite work and that rope tugs weren't the answer. |
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Pontoon - and others - another thought is that it is important to consider the ability and experience of your second when contemplating rope stretcher leads. If I am climbing with a lesser experienced second, or a second that may have a difficult time following my lead, I typically make sure to avoid rope stretcher pitches. Avoiding big rope stretcher pitches is almost always an option. |
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Wally wrote:Pontoon - and others - another thought is that it is important to consider the ability and experience of your second when contemplating rope stretcher leads. If I am climbing with a lesser experienced second, or a second that may have a difficult time following my lead, I typically make sure to avoid rope stretcher pitches. Avoiding big rope stretcher pitches is almost always an option.This is a good thought. Staying near your second if they are inexperienced and may have real trouble (with gear, with a move, with anything) makes it easier to help them if need be. |
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Personally, I don't take the radios mentioned above unless I'm going out with less experienced climbers. I've worked out communication with my main partners pretty much how Wally has it. |
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My wife and I are hams. We use VX-3Rs, for quite a few different purposes. Rugged and reliable. FRS radios are much cheaper - for a reason. We do take our HTs climbing, but seldom find cause to use them while actually on the crag. They can be very useful for logistics though, and for safety out in the backcountry. |