graffiti vandal strikes Yosemite
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M Sprague wrote:She probably wasn't old enough to vote in 2008. A certain number of narcissistic dumb-dumbs doesn't negate the worth of studying culture. It takes many types and ways of looking at things to make a healthy, vibrant society, something many social conservatives don't seem to understand. The whole cult of ignorance is pretty weird to me. It is like a twisted version of the romantic ideal of simplicity.Good point. Most people now seem to equate culture with things like American Idol, the Kardasians, and celebrity gossip. Most youth wouldn't know who Faulkner, Jackson Pollack or Plato were and what their accomplishments to world culture might have been. A sad state of affairs. |
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M Sprague wrote:I do agree with that. That is just a really bad practical economic sense. Most people should study a lot of those subjects on their own in conjunction with their formal studies in more practical subjects.+1 It appears that so many recent high school grads now have the mistaken view that college is merely job training instead of its intended goal: teaching students how to think and learn for themselves. Yes, anything STEM requires the transfer of lots of theoretic, practical, and specific knowledge, but the more important result is being able to learn almost anything else on your own post-college. |
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Em Cos wrote:So the post that states (basically, can't recall how it was worded exactly) that who cares about her artwork, too busy looking at her nice legs, is deleted. Rightfully so, I think it was pretty crass. ...and the post above that praises her "work", while obviously cropping out her "artwork" such as it is but framing her body; which was implying and prompting the following post; that can stay. Swing and a miss, MP.I want to thank Em Cos for calling out assholish behavior in this thread and a couple of recent ones. Used to be, there was lots of casual misogyny and homophobia on the various climbing forums. Nowadays, there still is, but people call it out far more often. The work is appreciated. |
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frankstoneline wrote: While I agree most of the cases of sexism we talk about are sexism against women and that this is where many of the social and economic disparities lie in society, that doesnt mean that gender stereotypes and perceived "right" social roles aren't imposed on men, so men certainly can be the victim of sexism.Yep! Like when women, uninvited, 'womansplain' me things by offering their wisdom and advice on how to handle my child or on what she is saying? This is most amusing when they are not parents, which is always the first question I ask if offered wisdom: "How do you handle this with your child?" It might be more appreciated if a "public fit" from my child was anything worse than her tugging on my pant-leg witha grunt and saying "Hep Peeees Dahy" (help please, daddy). I think she is doing OK for an almost-2-year-old. When I buy diapers and a woman tells me that's not the brand I want and tries to "help me" and tells me to get that other brand. One even persisted in that after I told her that those give Emi a rash. The other day at a party Emi walked into the middle of a crowd and got surprised by a large number of people and gasped. A friend went to pick her up before I got there. I asked, walking that way "Please let me get that." The woman tells me how great she is with kids and picks her up anyway. Em shrieks and kicks as that friend picks her up. "You know, you might be good with kids, but I *AM* her dad. She takes 5 minutes to warm up to someone before they can pick her up, and that's IF we are talking to them." The last thing, and perhaps most common is when they try to tell me what she is saying when I ask her to repeat herself (and they are guessing wrong). This actually happens quite a bit because Em knows about 500 words, and speaks in short sentences, but at 21 months doesn't pronounce them very well. We're just working on pronunciation, it is not that I can't understand her. Yet it is presumed that because I am a man, I am less capable of understanding my daughter or her needs than a strange woman off the street that doesn't even HAVE kids? Guys don't do this to me, just women. It's probably not intentional sexism. They are just trying to help, which I don't want to discourage, since a society where nobody wants to talk or help would suck... but for someone to say that there is no sexism from females is pretty ignorant of the world as it is. |
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Casual sexism does not, a priori, make you a sexist, but it is not ok, either. Learn from the mistake, and move on. |
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The talk about torture and sex was uncalled for and should have been deleted. The talk about sexism is also uncalled for and should also be deleted. |
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nicelegs wrote:The talk about torture and sex was uncalled for and should have been deleted. The talk about sexism is also uncalled for and should also be deleted. This thread isn't about a person who openly vandalized multiple national parks anymore. That is a shame. So, straw poll and jump to conclusion time. Do you suppose her punishment will be less than the overweight boy scout rock pushers or less? If worse, does that speak of sexism? If less, is that reverse sexism? Does anyone know all the lyrics to "Wiggle it" and have a GoPro? I have a park pass and a great idea...Thanks for putting that image back in my head. Should her punishment be as much? The boyscouts destroyed a natural formation that you can't put back in its original state. This lady painted on rocks. I'm not defending her in any way, but from what I've seen, and I will admit that I haven't dug too deep, it looks like with some elbow grease these places will be back to normal.The punishment needs to be enough to deter any moron from doing this again, but it seems like 2 different extents of vandalism here. |
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I don't know what punishment the rock-pushers got, but painting on rock is definitely a lesser sin than completely destroying rock formations, especially formations as unique as were toppled. As has been said, paint can be removed with work. Removing it may mar the rock, especially porous or soft rock, but that's still better. |
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5k per incident, 5 year ban from the parks + community service + a week in the stocks with a donkey hat on |
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CALIFORNIA PENAL CODE |
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Jon Zucco wrote:...EDIT: I guess the penalty for vandalism in a national park is more like a $500 fine and six months in jail. Hopefully they follow through with at least that and charge her for the restoration materials and labor.In the cases linked in one of the articles (too lazy to hunt them down) individuals who scratched their names into walls and the like in national parks faced $15000 and $10000 dollar fines (I think those were the numbers mentioned) for single first offenses. multiply that by 30 and she's looking at a pretty ominous loan for her art-school of hard knocks adventure. |
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Yeah, I'm having trouble tracking down what the actual law is regarding this. But then, I haven't tried all that hard either. I am hoping the consequences will be steep. The fact that she defaced national monuments with her "art" knowing full well that it was illegal, is not acceptable. Even if she didn't know it was illegal and even if her paintings were any good, it'd still be completely unacceptable. I hope a hefty fine and a little jail time are both in her future. |
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I'm not even going to delve into the depth of the sexism conversation that is present here, but I want each and all of you to dig into your own consience/ experience and really examine whether you think jail time is the right answer for this girl. Have none of you tagged a wall, drank a beer in a public place, indulged in a little (federally illegal) "devil's cabbage" in a national park, dirtbag camped (i.e. squatting) or anything else? How many of these offences are punishable by jail time? Answer: all of them, to a certain extent. How many of them are REALLY punishable by jail? Probably none of them, particularly if you can relate them to your own life experience. How would you have felt if people were all of a sudden taking up pitchforks and calling for your witch hunt? I can guarantee that a vast majority of us would be on the defensive. |
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Actually, what your saying makes sense. Oh wait I didn't tag 10+ walls, just the one. |
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Wow. We went from vandalism, to sexism, almost got back to vandalism, now we're talking about empiricalism. Nice. Not sure how "indulging in the Devils cabbage," or drinking a beer in public relates. Oh yeah, what the fuck is Devils cabbage? |
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mike c wrote:Do all you witch hunters know acrylic paint is water based......Are you under the impression that water-based equals washable? It doesn't. Acrylic paints are permanent. Yes, climbing routes and hiking trails and thousands of visitors camping in a small area obviously all have impacts on the natural world. These are all permitted, legal uses. Vandalism is prohibited and illegal. |
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BTW
mediocre wrote:Wow. We went from vandalism, to sexism, almost got back to vandalism, now we're talking about empiricalism. Nice. Not sure how "indulging in the Devils cabbage," or drinking a beer in public relates. Oh yeah, what the fuck is Devils cabbage?Devil's lettuce |
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Dallas Branum wrote: Sexism against men doesn't exist (just as reverse racism doesn't exist.) Sexism isn't just prejudice based on gender... it's prejudice based on gender, combined with power. Sexism is systemic, institutional, and far reaching. It's prejudice being directed toward an oppressed or marginalized group (in this case, women.) You can't have sexism against men, because men hold (the majority,) of power in our society, and their gender isn't used to discredit or oppress them (generally.) It very damn well can be, especially if it's coming from a place of internalized sexism. Is Bitch an Example of Internalized Sexism?So true. It's unfortunate that the patriarchal status quo conspired to overpower natural processes and brutally established a tyrannical coda governing Mother Nature. If only the power had flowed naturally from the Goddess to her daughters. It wasn't until the penetration of the phallus, which created evil, that women were forced to protest gently the dominion of men through creative childbirth, and art. Lo, if only there were more allies willing to speak on behalf of the trampled flower, perhaps there would be no more masculine overlords conquering, bloodletting, twirling mustaches, and posting. |
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Hopefully her actions won't effect our access to rock. |
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B-Mkll wrote: It's far too easy to crucify someone online without paying attention to how you would react differently if this was your friend, sister, daughter, girlfriend, etc.Same way. But admittedly, I say that from the comfort of knowing that nobody I associate closely with would do such a thing, with the possible exception of my 22 month old who, as it so happens, creates art with about the same level of quality/appeal. |