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Seeking input for Car purchase

Original Post
mattjohnson · · Greenville SC · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 40

My 96 Jeep is getting old and decrepit, and it is looking like she may have to be put down soon. I would like some input as to what car might be good for a climber as a good compromise between cost to own and ability to use for climbing and sleeping in every once in a while. Anything small and cheap where you can take a back seat out for room to lay down? These are the main things I am looking for, in order of importance, and the ratio of how much I care about each characteristic relative to the others:

1. Cost, 35% (Lower cost is better)

2. Decent gas mileage, 25% (I probably spend an average of 4-7 hrs per week driving for work and 3-4 hrs driving to rock climb)

3. Durability, 22% (I would like to not have to buy another car for as long as possible)

4. Sleepable space, 15% (Are there any cars that are easy to transfigure into something with a big enough sleeping/gear storage area by moving seats around, etc? Anything kind of like the Honda Element, but cheaper and without the wind resistance of a large box?)

5. Aesthetics, style, other, 3% (Still have to drive to work)

Alexander Blum · · Livermore, CA · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 143

Things I have seen people plug in these threads that fit your criteria:

Toyota Prius - pretty sure I have seen pictures of them set up for sleeping

Honda Fit - a guy built a mini sleeping platform in the back of one, it looked pretty damned sweet.

Some Kia hatchback - guy had an excellent sleeping setup in it

I am on the same search, and settled on a Prius for the SICK gas mileage. My girl has an SUV, so if we need clearance, we have clearance. Unless you go places where you need clearance OFTEN it's a non issue, so ignore the truck enthusiasts who may crash your thread. Any small wagon with good reliability that has seats which fold down the way they need to for this should work well . . .

mattjohnson · · Greenville SC · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 40

I've never seen the inside of a prius in real life, but I saw that the floor in the trunk is raised up above the floor under the rear seats. Do the rear seats fold down to where they are the same level with the floor in the trunk? About how much distance is there between the back of the car and the back of the front seats (can you lay down with your legs stretched out)?

Alexander Blum · · Livermore, CA · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 143

That's a great question. I was going to test that out this weekend - and I still will - but it seems like lots of people camp out of the back of a Prius . . .

Google Image Search - "Camping in my Prius"

shotwell · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 0
mattjohnson wrote:I've never seen the inside of a prius in real life, but I saw that the floor in the trunk is raised up above the floor under the rear seats. Do the rear seats fold down to where they are the same level with the floor in the trunk? About how much distance is there between the back of the car and the back of the front seats (can you lay down with your legs stretched out)?
The rear seats fold flat and a 6' tall guy can lay in the back with the front seats pushed forward. My wife and I have slept for a month at a time in ours, which is a little too long for a car of that size. It isn't crazy comfortable at 6', but it can work.
Hank G · · Carlsbad, Ca · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 35

I, as well as another climber friend of mine, both have Pontiac Vibes (Toyota Matrix with an American made interior). Great car; good milage (low 30s hwy), tons of cargo space, passenger seat folds down so you can sleep inside (I'm 6'2), decent clearance, and a lot of little things that I'm too lazy to list. Plus, they're decently cheap for something with a toyota engine/drivetrain.

Craig Childre · · Lubbock, TX · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 4,860

I am a big fan of the TDI VW. I roll in an older Golf, and it is hard to beat the gas mileage/performance that a TDI will yield. I get 38 in town and 45-50 on the highway. So prefer the Jetta Wagen, for their additional lenght. The new models haven't strayed far from that design. So much fun to drive, the torque just laughs at steep hills. Doesn't snap off the line, but once the turbo rolls up, hang on! The hybrids are effective in town, but on the highway not as much. I also see battery replacements run around a ghastly $4000, and their average lifespan is around 180K. The price points are comparable, one just needs to decide if they want to pay a little more for fuel, or buy replacement batteries. If you think you'll be finished with it at 150K, or do a lot of stop and go driving... the Prius looks good.

That said. If you opt for any VW product. I'd highly recommend buying the aluminum or steel skid plate/splash guard, as they like to hang their oil pan's nice and low, the factory plastic is good for paved roads and gravel, but not much else.

I rather like this fellows unique setup...

facebook.com/photo.php?v=12…

mattjohnson · · Greenville SC · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 40

Thanks for the info, everybody. Craig, whats the interior situation with the Golf? Do you know much about durability with the TDI engines?

GhaMby Eagan · · Heaven · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 385

I also have a 2005 Pontiac Vibe, paid 7k for it in 2009 and it now just went over 200,000 miles. I haven't done more than oil changes and spark plug changes. Not the sexiest, or most powerful car, but it is a great car. Just make sure you get one with the automatic trans (the manual trans had plastic parts that supposedly break!), and stay away from the All Wheel Drive models.

Clay Hansen · · Colorado · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 40

I second the TDI Jetta Wagon. They're insanely reliable. My girlfriend owns one and we've taken it anywhere from Rumney, NH to Red Rocks in Vegas, all while getting 50mpg. With regular maintenance I've seen these cars touch 500k in miles. That doesn't of course include replacement of suspension, bearings, etc. Our has about 230K on it and we just replace the suspension bushings included. I'm expecting this care to be a 500K mile car easily.

mattjohnson · · Greenville SC · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 40

Jetta wagon gets 50 mpgs? Is the rear interior situation good for sleeping?

Clay Hansen · · Colorado · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 40

Well I should clarify she has the sedan, but her father does have a wagon and the mpg is still 50ish on the highway.

Sleeping would be decent in the back. I'm about 6"0 and it would be fine, but I don't need too much room to curl up in the back. As long as you aren't Sasquatch you'd be fine.

Matt N · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 415

I'd recommend the vibe/matrix over a used TDI. If one of the major issues happens with that diesel engine, you've just lost all of your gas $avings and then some.

If you want more of a CUV, I found the Saturn Vue to be a good value. Depreciate like a rock and the 4cyl 5-spd (key here) to be very reliable and get 26-27mpg average. Doesn't fold fully flat for sleeping, though.

wankel7 · · Indiana · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 10
John Marsella wrote:Ive got a 2004 jetta wagon. At 5-foot 10ish, i can sleep comfortably in it, albeit at a bit of a diagonal. The seats lay pretty much flat but you have to take off some metal carseat-anchor thingys to make it comfy.
I have an 03 wagon. I was able to remove the seat bottoms really easily. Frees up even more room. They come out with a few pins.

I used to have a 2004 Ford Focus wagon. 30 mpg on the highway and they are pretty cheap to buy. Mine had the 2.3L with a 5 speed.
rock-fencer · · Columbia, SC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 265

The focus is awesome. Mines 05 and has made it at cross the country twice. I beat the crap out of it. Rrg, wind river range, etc. I have a zx3 and with the back seats folded down I cannot however sleep in the back 5'10". The wagon may be a bit roomier but you lose the fun of driving unless you upgrade the engine. It's one of the most fun cheap cars I've driven in a manual.l tranny. Decent clearance but I've scraped the bottom before for sure. Biggest maintenance issue I've had was a cracked engine mount and I have a squeaky front shock.

rogerbenton · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 210

I've posted the same answer multiple times and I'll keep voting the same way:

HONDA ELEMENT.

I love mine, and everyone I know who has one loves it also.

To address your criteria-

- Cost is relative, no idea what your budget is. However, you can find elements from $4K- up

- My awd element gets 25mpg highway as long as i keep it under 80 mph.

- I've had mine 7 years, and expect to get another 7 years easily. It's a honda.

- You can sleep two adults in comfort

- Style is in the eye of the beholder but they aren't as goofy as a lot of vehicles out there.

Some other aspects :

- The AWD is amazing. I've gone through thigh deep snow and soft sand no problem. You won't get stuck due to lack of traction; you would have to high-center it to truly be "stuck".

- great highway cruiser, super tight turning radius makes it easy to maneuver and park.

- It can fit a TON of gear if you are only traveling as two people.

- killer factory stereo

- the maintenance over the last 7 years has been extremely reasonable. Other than fluids and filters, I've replaced the engine mounts, a bushing in the rear suspension linkage, and front struts. Total parts cost for these factory honda parts was around $1200. Not bad for 85k miles, and all three issues are directly due to daily driving on the worst kept roads in the country (nyc tax dollars too busy subsidizing citibikes i guess).

The only knock against the Element in my book is that the two back seats are separate and don't allow seating for three in the back so it's a strict 4-seater. But the flexibility of the seating and the ability to lay the fronts and the backs flat into roomy beds it totally worth it.

jonathan.lipkin · · Brooklyn, NY · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 70

I have a TDI Passat and love it. It gets 50mpg on the highway, very roomy and comfortable. Trunk is quite large. It's relatively quiet. I can't comment on the reliability, but I've put 65k miles on it with no issues so far. Consumer reports rates it as average reliability. The diesel upgrade cost about 3k over sticker, but I think I've made that back already.

wankel7 · · Indiana · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 10
rock_fencer wrote:The focus is awesome. Mines 05 and has made it at cross the country twice. I beat the crap out of it. Rrg, wind river range, etc. I have a zx3 and with the back seats folded down I cannot however sleep in the back 5'10". The wagon may be a bit roomier but you lose the fun of driving unless you upgrade the engine. It's one of the most fun cheap cars I've driven in a manual.l tranny. Decent clearance but I've scraped the bottom before for sure. Biggest maintenance issue I've had was a cracked engine mount and I have a squeaky front shock.
My old Focus wagon with the 2.3L wasn't a slouch :) The cargo area with the seats down was 73 cubic feet. That is more space than any crossover suv out there.
Craig Childre · · Lubbock, TX · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 4,860

My TDI just rolled 200K. The only issue I've ever had was due to bad mechanic work by myself. Replacing the timing belt, I mis-identified the top dead center mark and just burgered my head. They've improved the weak points that I could point out on my Mark VI. Cool part, is oil changes only come every 20K, on the new Mark VI's. I think 200K would be no sweat for any well maintained TDI.

I wish the seats were a little more comfy, but a therm-a-rest can soften things up. Sleeping in the Golf can be tight... one person and a dog.

20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346
Craig Childre wrote:My TDI just rolled 200K. The only issue I've ever had was due to bad mechanic work by myself. Replacing the timing belt, I mis-identified the top dead center mark and just burgered my head. They've improved the weak points that I could point out on my Mark VI. Cool part, is oil changes only come every 20K, on the new Mark VI's. I think 200K would be no sweat for any well maintained TDI. I wish the seats were a little more comfy, but a therm-a-rest can soften things up. Sleeping in the Golf can be tight... one person and a dog.
I have a 2009 and a 2011 Jetta TDI and both of them have change intervals of 10k. That said, you can run just about any car diesel to 30k with Castrol SLX Long Life Plus as Castrol rates the oil for 30k with 10k filter changes.

I dont get 50 MPG on either of them, not even at 60 MPH. Only way I would get that is at 40 MPH on brand new, flat pavement and no stops. I get about 30 heavy city and 40 - 43 highway @ 60 MPH for both of them. While some people might get 50 MPG, I wouldent count on it as a new car buyer. The official EPA rating is 41 on the highway with the DSG 6-speed tranny, and that's for a new one. The older TDIs are just under 40 MPG official. The EPA is typically spot on for MPG estimates in my experience. If they werent, someone would be out of a job.
Steven Kovalenko · · Calgary · Joined May 2014 · Points: 25

The old Focus Wagon is cheap, and easy to fix yourself with inexpensive domestic parts. I have a 2001 2.0L Zetec Wagon. Don't get an automatic transmission. My mechanic told me they crap out around 200,000km's. Watch the front struts and rear suspension. You will likely need a big stick to hold up the rear hatch (I use my stick clip).

Very easy to sleep in the back of these. The rear seat bench takes up a bit of headroom when flipped up. Easily remove it by removing two torx head bolts, and get even more cargo space and head room for sleeping.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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