Making a Via ferrata set up?

I'm heading to telluride for a wedding and I'd like to get on the Via ferrata traverse above the town. I've got some Sterling Photon 7.8 twin rope to spare, so I was thinking of making a rig with that. I'm thinking a figure 8 on a bight in the center, connected to my belay loop with a locker, with 2 arms (maybe 2' long?) with figure 8s on a bight with lockers on the end for connecting to the cable. It seems better then using slings and much better then buying a rig to use only once. Any ideas or glaring problems with this system? Thanks!

2' long arms don't seem like much for energy absorption. Maybe consider 2 Purcell Prusiks? IDK, never made a via ferrata setup.

The VF in Telluride is pretty easy, and you'll feel comfortable enough if you're a climber that that setup will work fine. It's 99% traversing as well so with care painful falls can be avoided. A shock absorber in the system would of course be best, but I used a similar setup as yours and felt just fine.
Enjoy, it's a sweet "hike"!

I just did tellurides krogetera on monday! its really fun, motsly beautifull and fun to hang out above the town, with only a few parts with real exposure. because it is a static line I would absolutely use a shock absorber (I have a screamer, which are reatively inexpensive)just due to the anchor system to avoid shock loading the line with everyone on it in that rare case that a handle broke, or a foot slipped, or god forbid rockfall....
I have seen several set ups, I used a pas for one arm, and 7mm cordallette making a loop with double fishermans, so I could adjust the legnth and clove hitches (at one point an over hand just to adjust legnth). 2 feet is probably a good legnth. However, you could always just use slings as there is little elevation change while anchored. I also saw a group of outward bound people from Moab starting as we were finishing and only one of them had a shock absorber

Thank you everyone for all of your input. I'll probably grab a screamer while in boulder just to err on the side of caution. I'm pretty stoked to get try this, it seems like a great way to wrap up a 7 day climbing/wedding trip!

Shane N wrote: with figure 8s on a bight with lockers on the end for connecting to the cable.

For that, barrel knots are a far better option. They are less bulky, help keep the biners orientated and offer marginally better shock absorption.

(If you are interested - british-caving.org.uk/rope/… - gives you stacks of data on lanyard tests including with different knots.)

IMO buying a _standard_ screamer is not great advice and definitely not the best option. In small to moderate falls a rope lanyard will work perfectly well on its own but in really large falls the screamer will only offer limited additional protection compared to a proper VF rig. It's presence might also lull you into a false sense of security. (See section 8.4 (90th page, page number 85) of hse.gov.uk/research/crr_pdf… if you want some very limited test data on an older CM verison.)

If you want reliable protection from a worst case FF2 or greater fall, you can potentially buy a Kong Kisa kong.it/doc408.htm for similar or less money. It isn't in English but turiactivo.blogspot.com/201… has really good pictures of set-ups and Google can give a vaguely readable translation.

I can't help you with sourcing a Kisa and it is designed for 9mm rope (not 7.8mm) but it is really the only safe option short of buying a proper VF kit.

^^ what he said. I looked into this a while back and it's complicated. Via ferrata falls can easily be much greater than factor 2 since you freefall along a cable before the lanyard system comes taut. In fact, the biners made for this are stronger and marked with a 'K'.

If the climb was only traverse, then a screamer attached to a 'y' going to two biners might work, but if it has any vertical ladder sections with a cable constructed with 'j's, I wouldn't count on something homemade to hold a worst case fall...

Shane N wrote:I've got some Sterling Photon 7.8 twin rope to spare, so I was thinking of making a rig with that. I'm thinking a figure 8 on a bight in the center, connected to my belay loop with a locker, with 2 arms (maybe 2' long?) with figure 8s on a bight with lockers on the end for connecting to the cable.

I dont know anything about the via ferrata route you are doing, but with regard to via ferrata routes in general:

Absolutely not! You need a dedicated via ferrata lanyard. Via ferrata and climbing equipment are separate, with seperate certifications and separate requirements. If you fell on dynamic rope used as a via ferrata lanyard you could die. This is because fall factors in via ferrata routes can be as high as 6, whereas dynamic ropes are mostly suited for catching fall factors below 1.25, with a max of 2. Also, screemers by them self are also insufficient as they will not absorb enough energy. The only correct solution is to buy a purpose-built lanyard. No making one, and no substituting other gear. Just as you wouldent substitute hardware store gear for climbing gear, you dont substitute climbing gear for via ferrata gear (at least not when it comes to the lanyard). Even the carabiners used on those lanyards are special and require a more rigorous UIAA certification.

Just Google via ferrata lanyard. They are tons of them out there and you can get one for $80. If the route is hard, bring an extra because once you fall on them they are done for. One use only.

This is all great advice, I actually didnt know most of that.

However, the Telluride VF (the krogatera) is not a true VF (in the dolomite sense that has lots of vertical gain). THis one is primarily a traverse with at most 2 feet of vert in it, in fairly well protected places. I would be shocked if a FF2 fall was realistic (possible but not plausible).
So to be 100% i suppose a true VF setup is required, and I am going to withdrawl any recomendations based on "there is better information out there than what i have to offer". but even after this conversation I would feel %100 about going back (to Telluride) with the same rig I used, and I wouldnt hesitate to take other people with me.

Question: I'm making a setup for the Telluride Via Ferrata and am wondering how exactly to attach a screamer. I've never used one before and I'm having a hard time finding information. The guys at the shop where I bought it acted like it was overkill but I'm going to use it anyway. I'm using climbing rope with eight-on-a-bight for each arm and to attach to the screamer. Can I use a locking biner? I'm assuming I attach the screamer to my harness with a locking biner, is this correct?

This is a pretty slick DIY lanyard that I've used in several different iterations:

DIY lanyard

You may not require the prusik.

We attached an energy absorber either with quicklink (wrench required to tighten/loosen) or a steel tri-lock biner for addition strength and security. You can find different shape/size quicklink for what you may need.

As mentioned above not safe for true via ferrata.

For the second time, do not make a DIY via ferrata lanyard. There is a lot more engineering behind how they work than immediately appears. First off, the carabiners you use need to be UIAA class K carabiners, which require a special gate opening mechanism and added resistance of edge loading, which is possible on via ferrata routes. Standard steel carabiners are not sufficient. Also, you cannot just attach any screamer. Different screamers use different activation forces and have different energy absorbing capabilities. The energy absorbing element in a via ferrata lanyard is capable of absorbing many times that of a standard climbing screamer, and the activation force is much higher.

You can buy a via ferrata lanyard for like $70 online, which is not that much more than it costs to build one, so just do it right.

Just climb the 3 pitch 5.7 or 5.8 on pipeline wall under it. the views are great and you will be all alone. Also you get to actualy climb.

Thought I'd revive this thread to ask a question. Background: I am now in Spain and via ferratas abound. I just did one yesterday and it was a blast. It seems like a fun thing to do with my friends and relatives who are not necessarily climbers. And, yes, I purchased factory lanyards before I headed out on our scramble (an Edelrid Cable Lite 2.3). So, cost is not really the issue with me. Instead, it seems to me that these factory lanyards have the following significant disadvantage: if by chance you do fall on one, you have to replace it since the stitching will rip to dissipate your fall, much like a screamer. That means carrying a replacement so you can finish the via in relative safely. This brings us to home-made lanyards which some have highly criticized due to the extremely high potential fall factors. But, I have seen folks over here using homemade lanyards that include K-class carabiners, maybe 10mm dynamic rope, various knots, and a plate, through which the rope winds, specifically designed to dissipate force. It seems pretty good to me. To you experienced ferrata folks out there, is this acceptable if done correctly? What are the dangers/drawbacks? Or is this not a good idea at all? It seems like the advantage would be that you could continue to use it even after falling on it. I am considering carrying something like it as a backup, just in case someone in our group does fall (in addition to other self-rescue odds and ends). What do you think? Here is a link to what I mean (in Spanish, but with a diagram that should be understandable): http://turiactivo.blogspot.com.es/2013/03/como-confeccionar-tus-propios.html

Thanks!

Daniel Joder wrote:

Thought I'd revive this thread to ask a question. Background: I am now in Spain and via ferratas abound. I just did one yesterday and it was a blast. It seems like a fun thing to do with my friends and relatives who are not necessarily climbers. And, yes, I purchased factory lanyards before I headed out on our scramble (an Edelrid Cable Lite 2.3). So, cost is not really the issue with me. Instead, it seems to me that these factory lanyards have the following significant disadvantage: if by chance you do fall on one, you have to replace it since the stitching will rip to dissipate your fall, much like a screamer. That means carrying a replacement so you can finish the via in relative safely. This brings us to home-made lanyards which some have highly criticized due to the extremely high potential fall factors. But, I have seen folks over here using homemade lanyards that include K-class carabiners, maybe 10mm dynamic rope, various knots, and a plate, through which the rope winds, specifically designed to dissipate force. It seems pretty good to me. To you experienced ferrata folks out there, is this acceptable if done correctly? What are the dangers/drawbacks? Or is this not a good idea at all? It seems like the advantage would be that you could continue to use it even after falling on it. I am considering carrying something like it as a backup, just in case someone in our group does fall (in addition to other self-rescue odds and ends). What do you think? Here is a link to what I mean (in Spanish, but with a diagram that should be understandable): http://turiactivo.blogspot.com.es/2013/03/como-confeccionar-tus-propios.html

Thanks!

If you're worried about ripping an entire screamer open, another option is the Kong KISA. According to Kong it can be reused up to 3 time I think, and realistically you can use it until the sling starts to get glazed, however long that may be. You and also carry a backup sling if you anticipate falling several times on a via ferrata route. 

And to those who are seeking answers about the telluride via ferrata, a legit via ferrata setup is not needed. There's really only one 10-20 ft section where it's actually exposed and even then a fall is very unlikely. The majority of it is just hiking next to a cliff edge with a few reach-arounds and traverses thrown in here and there. I used my normal tether made from half rope and a sling to back it up. Most people doing the Telluride via ferrata are just using 2 slings with autolockers. 

Thanks, Eli! Maybe the Kong KISA is the actual friction plate with holes with which you build your own lanyards? (Rather than the entire lanyard setup.) Googling it, it looks very similar to what I have seen on ferrata people around here.  I guess the key is to take into account your body weight, use an appropriate dynamic rope diameter, and thread the plate exactly according to manufacturer’s specs. In a fall, as the rope slips through the plate to absorb the shock, it must glaze the cord a bit each time. I assume that is what you are referring to. Thanks!

Close. Yes, the KISA is the friction plate but it is designed to be used with a sling, not a cord for shock absorber. Unless you have a bunch of short lengths of dynamic rope laying around, you're probably better of using a sling with the KISA and connecting that to a dynamic rope lanyard. Slings are usually easier and cheaper to replace.

Edit: I just checked and it is actually designed to be used with cord. Either it used to be something with slings and they changed it or maybe I'm thinking of a similar product from another manufactorer. Still, I would recommend using cord that is easy to replace and connecting it to a landyard made of dynamic rope. 

Consensus of the UIAA Safety Commission:

Statement Regarding the Re-Usability of Via Ferrata Energy Absorbing Systems after a Significant Fall

At the June 2014 Safety Commission meeting, as part of the discussion of via ferrata energy absorbing systems (EAS), delegates deliberated regarding the status of re-usability of EAS after fall arrest. There is consensus about the following assumptions regarding re-usability on which the current VF EAS standard is based:

• An EAS is a safety system of last resort. The deployment of an EAS in the event of a significant fall is similar to the deployment of airbags during automobile crashes.  Both deployments are violent and can cause severe injury. In both situations, it is of utmost importance that great care be taken to avoid deployment, which must be considered an option of last resort. As such, the mentality of falling on a via ferrata differs significantly from the mentality appropriate to sport climbing or bouldering—sports in which falling may be considered an acceptable risk.
• Significant EAS deployment implies that the fallen climber will require rescue. After a significant fall in which a significant deployment of the EAS occurs, the fallen climber will almost surely be injured to the point where rescue personnel are required, whether to attend to injuries and/or attend to extraction of the climber suspended by the deployed lanyard more than one meter below the anchor at the bottom of the via ferrata stage.
• Extraction after via ferrata EAS deployment is a problem. Situations that are likely to lead to significant EAS deployment but NOT the severe injury of the via ferrata climber are also likely to strand the climber suspended in overhanging terrain a distance of a meter or more below the anchor. Extraction and self-extraction from such a situation are difficult and require expertise and possibly extraction equipment (for example, prussiks or ascenders—which are not so easy to use on tape/webbing).
• Via Ferrata climbing may be an individual pursuit. Soloing a VF entails an acceptable risk, but entails more risk than would be present when climbing as member of a party. Recognition of the risk of injury and/or becoming stranding as a result of EAS deployment must guide via ferrata climbers who choose to climb alone.
• If a via ferrata climber is concerned about the re-usability of an EAS, a 2nd via ferrata EAS kit should be brought along or a via ferrata EAS kit with a re-threadable rope braking device should be used. This situation is a little like a mountaineer bringing two helmets in case the first is damaged or installing a 2nd set of air bags in a car to be able to drive away from an accident after the first airbag deploys. Nonetheless, the concern is legitimate and can be addressed; doing so might be especially appropriate for parties that are large enough and/or skilled enough to extract a party member who has become stranded in overhanging terrain after EAS deployment. It goes without saying that although possession of an extra EAS or a re-usable EAS may assist the evacuation of a climber after an initial EAS deployment, possession of an extra EAS kit does not reduce the likelihood of the initial deployment nor mitigate the immediate consequences the initial deployment.
• The EAS user must have a degree of expertise. The level of a VF EAS user’s “expertise” was controversial. On one hand, the European PPE requires a competent, trained user and the UIAA Tyrol Declaration urges climbers to have “proper training.” On the other hand, the delegates recognized that one of the fundamental aspects of the sport of via ferrata climbing is to enable climbers to progress in steep terrain without the degree of expertise required for roped climbing. In any event, there is consensus that awareness and acceptance of the risks of EAS deployment are components of the expertise required for via ferrata use.

These assumptions would deserve reconsideration in the future if there are either significant changes to the EAS/via ferrata standards or significant improvements in the technologies used in via ferrata construction/EAS manufacture. For the time being, physics, human physiology, and the nature of the sport tightly constrain EAS braking force and distance to levels that are likely to result in injury and/or stranding during a fall that significantly deploys the EAS; thus the current EAS standard does not include re-usability as a requirement.

 

Thanks for the clarification, Eli. Dave, that is excellent info. When I was out with a buddy on Friday on one of the popular vias around here (the one on the coast at San Feliu de Guixols), we talked a bit about what it would take to do a self-rescue, or rescue someone else. It would be very different depending on where the fall happened--on a "Tibetan bridge" vs. on an overhanging wall vs. on a narrow ridge, etc. Injuries would complicate things even more. At the very least this should all be quite sobering to via ferrata folks. On the one hand, it doesn't take much skill to get on one and muscle your way through...on the other hand, it would likely take a great deal of skill to get oneself or another person out of a situation after a fall. Great food for thought. I'll be rethinking what I carry with me on these outings (extra lanyard set, prussiks/ascenders, pulley, a short rope, etc.)

Speaking of via ferrata falls and rescues, this will make you cringe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awORVMs_4d0

20 kN wrote: If you fell on dynamic rope used as a via ferrata lanyard you could die. This is because fall factors in via ferrata routes can be as high as 6, whereas dynamic ropes are mostly suited for catching fall factors below 1.25, with a max of 2. 

I guess I don't really understand fall factors in any great detail but how do you generate a fall factor of 6?

https://www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Fall-factor-and-impact-force---theory