Placing gear on sport (bolted) route = negative style?

Why in the hell is there a bolt that close to a crack like that? I'd guess whomever bolted it lacked some brains. You don't bolt near a crack. If they did it up here they'd crucify you, heh heh heh...

On your question, consider it a mixed line, lol... I place gear anywhere I can. I'm climbing it, not my 6'5" tall friend. If I want to put gear in every 4' I damn well will. And if someone doesn't like it or has something to say about it, they can walk to another section of the cliff dude. Climb for you. F#$% everyone elses opinions..

Why in the hell is there a bolt that close to a crack like that?

...probably because the entire crag was 'chipped' by the railroad.

John Wilder wrote:only thing to consider here is the distance to the 4th bolt from the cam. As mentioned above, you should be clipping at your waist- if you cannot, then the equipper set the route up wrong and i'd definitely place the cam (or go in direct and hang a double draw on the 3rd bolt so i can clip below and then again, or maybe just a long draw, depending on the scenario, then lower off and go for the red point). I've got a project in Red Rock that I'll probably use gear on to mitigate a monster whip at the top of the route- I think the equipper botched the bolting job on it and it should have another bolt, but there is a horizontal there for gear, so i'll probably use it- at least while i'm working the route. Maybe not when I go for the redpoint. We'll see. More often, though, if there's a bolt that's just a bit out of reach, i'll pre-hang a long or double draw on my first burn either while climbing or with a stick clip (after going in direct if i need to be on the route), so i can clip from one stance and then again at the bolt, depending.

i think it totally depends. i usually prefer routes where you clip at head height from good stances. if you are on a ledge or other potential ankle breaker, it is nice to have the first one pretty high. i kind of find clipping at my waist awkward on my wrist for some reason.

The bolt may be there for a reason other than simple overbolting - some crags have bolts close to 'protectable' features due to fragile or suspect rock. Plug the cam if it makes you feel safer -- I can't see why anyone would take issue with adding redundant, removable protection.

Better yet, use a telescoping rod to plug your cam from the ground. Then, start a thread debating the ethics of using a stick to pre-place gear.

csproul wrote:the only difference is that you end up lower (since you started lower) if you clip above your head. This is only a consideration if there is something to hit on the way down.

Like the ground? :-)

John - csproul is technically correct even if you blow the clip....however the OP did state that the ground (as Peter pointed out) is the main issue with the case in point.

the '90s called, they want their bolt-gun back

If you can place a #4 cam a foot below 3rd bolt, why not just clip the bolt out of the jug required to place a #4 cam in? If you can put a #4 cam in there, I would speculate it would accomodate yarding off of to clip a bolt that is only a foot above it?

I agree that you should clip from the safest spot, whether that be at waist or above your head. However, can someone explain how you have the same amount of rope out when clipping above you that you do when clipping at your waist. Every way I look at this, if you fall with an extra 6' of rope out above your tie in you're going for a longer ride.

jeb

You realize of course that placing a bolt is an arbitrary decision by the the person who equipped the route, which might or might not have been where you would have placed the bolt, further it was no doubt placed on rappel, it could be spot on or completely jacked, as long as you FREE the route its a send in my book. Look at the plethora of videos of the "pros" and you'll see doubled quick draws in many of them.

jeb013 wrote:I agree that you should clip from the safest spot, whether that be at waist or above your head. However, can someone explain how you have the same amount of rope out when clipping above you that you do when clipping at your waist. Every way I look at this, if you fall with an extra 6' of rope out above your tie in you're going for a longer ride. jeb

Assume bolt A to bolt B is 10 feet. You clip A, climb to B, attempting to clip at your waist you fall. You had 10 feet of rope out when you fell. The length of the fall is 20 feet. Agreed?

Now you clip A, climb 5 feet towards B, pull out an additional 5 feet of slack - you now have 15 feet out - and fall. How far? If you think the answer if 30 feet you are wrong - it's still 20. In the first case you end up 10 feet below A, in the 2nd you are 15 feet below. If the ground is 12 feet below - oopsie...

But it is an urban legend that falls are shorter if you clip at your waist. Cip from the best holds.

IMO this is a worthless question or concern! Why do you or anyone else for that matter care about how you climb a clip up anyway?

So let me see,,,if the person is offended on the trad gear placed on sports, a sport 'purist' I guess, then I suppose they would also be very against mixed rock/ice routes too. Don't touch that tool to the rock, it's ice and ice only for a real ice climb, right? Screws only, no ice bolts , no bolted 80 ft overhanging rocks leading out to 25 ft. of icicle for the finish. Cripes,,,,if I'm on a hairy sport route where they chose to put bolts 16 ft apart and I see a nice fat crack, I'm tossing in a cam or nut any time I feel like protecting my ass on the route.

This tread makes my head hurt.

PLEASE, climb however you want to! Put your dick in the crack if it makes you feel good. I won't judge you... as long as you clean up after yourself. It is climbing. it is supposed to be a positive thing. We are not curing cancer.

I hope young Andrew Massey is paying attention...his science fair project is practically writing itself here...

In addition to a few extra candidates for the MMPI (Sir Chips - take your dick out of your mouth and have your Mom grab you a juice box) Andrew could explore the psychology of those that take the time to post while denigrating the OP, the thread, all posters in general, or all of the above....

Seems that if you actually read the OP, he included the disclaimer that he was merely interested in honest opinions and would ultimately do what he thought best....what a Wackjob, asking for climbing opinions on an internet climbing forum. Let's just stick to the WEIGHTY issues, huh?

The Stoned Master,
I think protecting against a ground fall, by any fair means, is smart. And especially so if the route is near your limit.

Do it in proper style. Skip the bolts, just bring the cam. Place some other marginal gear if its there, when in doubt run it out.

!!!YUR GONNA DIE!!! (someday)

Or clip the bolts and place the cam for your mother. Honestly, who cares, no one but you is climbing this thing, no one but you should dictate the fashion you go about doing it. Only two things matter anyways; the fun you have and arriving at the ground at less than terminal velocity.

What if you cinch a nut over a hangerless bolt? Is that + or - style points?

Oh no, I think I've used 'trad draws' on sport routes!!! Damn, there goes my steezy points.

^^^ See? now that was mildly amusing....juice box works every time

You guys definitly make work/life more interesting. Its amazing how animated some of you get! I simply asked for your OPINION (opinion = no right or wrong) and it turned into a rugby scrum!

I wonder why some of you find it to be an issue that I am interested in others opinions? Im a human and someone who has/is developing new routes/areas on public property (public = everyones, not mine). Yes I am interested in others opinions, I am not held prisoner by your opinions but learn from them and consider them when making decisions as I must share this planet with you all.

I enjoy learning/knowing what your opinions are. Thanks for sharing.