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Thoughts on sharing your top rope rig with others?

Original Post
NYClimber · · New York · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 85

I want to share a story that recently happened to me and 2 climbing friends at a local crag not 1 month ago, and gather some thoughts from other climbers.

3 of us were climbing at a local crag - top roping a 5.8 problem. It's a very social place on weekends and everyone 'shares' their top rope rig(s) with anyone who wants to try the route - while we went off to do another route as the same time. So everyone shares each others rig, etc.

4 people where working this 5.8 - experienced climbers that frequent this place all the time. I had a nearly brand new Sterling 9.8mm rope that I had bought just months ago - only have about 4 outings on it.

We came back to our top rope site, and I was going to run some laps on this route but we were out of time and really had to head out for the day. We all started to gather up and sort out all of our gear and start packing. My friend was horrified as he flaked my 9.8 rope into my Metoluis bag - and about 8 ft from the end - the sheath was tore right thru the core (see pics). We nearly died! Mainly care I was extremely careful that when I rigged the slingshot top rope set up, I used a 7/16" static rope onto 2 stout new bolts - so that the top rope (dynamic rope) would 'have out freely into space' and never touch any rock.

I learned a lot of things from this ordeal - being:
1) ALWAYS check your gear after every climb
2) Know who's using it, how and if so - properly?

After this I had to cut off about 15 ft from the end of the 60m rope. I was just glad it wasn't in the middle of the rope.

So after this now - I wonder?

What is the liability should 1 of those 4 people had completely severed this rope - and fallen - and have been either hurt or killed?
I imagine I'd be subject to a lawsuit? Not like I have a signed Release of Liability form or disclaimer for anyone to use my gear should it fail.

Am I being overly cautious now, or smart?

Rope 1

Rope 2

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065

1. dont be a top rope tough guy ;)

2. dont share if you dont want to ... its your gear

3. if you ARE a top rope tough guy ... get a 10mm+ and the cheapest darn rope you can ... shiet happens on TR to ropes

4. ask a lawyer about liability not MPers ... with that out of the way, the climbers willingly took the risk of climbing on your gear, and you arent a professional wheres theres expectations of competence ...

honestly ... unless yr projecting a climb at your limit or is sketchy ... just lead it and youll be less likely to have these issues

;)

Morgan Patterson · · NH · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,945

I blew a huge core shot like that on my Sterling rope toproping as well, then there was that huge coreshot when I rapped on it, and then there was the replacement one which took a huge shot from that 1 handsized flake that pulled off 10 ft above the ground and cut the core in half.

This was with two different 9.8mm sterling ropes - both were recent purchases 2011/12 and I was utterly and completely disappointed/scared by their rope. I will not climb on Sterling until the figure out their sheath durability problems. Some report sterlings are great and super durable, my experience has been anything but and there have been many posts about these ropes recently with similar stories, light use by exp climbing and totally busted ropes and broke wallets.

Logan Fuzzo · · Portland, OR · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 437

That looks like the Evolution rope? Last year I was climbing in WA pass with some folks from Seattle I had met in the parking lot (my buddy's car broke down, and their 4th person didn't make it to the trail head either, so we teamed up). We rappelled off our climb, had no falls all day, yet on the last rappel I noticed that the same rope (silver/yellow colored sheath) had a core shot about 25 meters in! We were doing double rope rappels with my 70m 9.8, and my rope was fine. The owner said he had opened the packaging of that rope the day before. It looked similar to your pics, the sheath was ripped and core was coming out.

Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 883

Don't concern yourself with liability. Climbing accidents due to gear failure would most undoubtedly be ruled as an accident.

That said, I would take the utmost responsibility with the safety of my gear and gear setups as well as a stranger's setup that I choose to get on. If I choose to get on some stranger's top rope setup without a safety inspection, I have made a choice and must accept responsibility for any subsequent failures. I would be volunteering into this situation.

Alternately, do a climb, pull your rope, wait in line for the next route. If someone wants to leave their setup, politely explain that you prefer to climb on your own gear. Ask them to pull their stuff. If a rope is left unattended with nobody around, pull it yourself. They have exercised poor etiquette.

Unfortunately, nobody has an obligation to replace your gear if they borrow it and do damage unless you agree upon this before lending it. Period. But, the nature of the situation and the borrower's moral compass may deem otherwise.

Chase Leoncini · · San Diego, CA · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 297

I had somewhat of the same thing to me, only there was no serious damage.
I took my new rope out to different crag than i usually climb to meet a group of people who asked me to come out. When i arrived i could see that everyone shared ropes because there werent many climbs and it seemed like everyone knew each other well enough to know nothing bad would happen. I climbed and decided to join them next week. On this visit i put up a TR on a 5.7 crack route and when people asked i said sure. Being friendly. I was a bit worried tho.
I had maybe used this rope 15 times and took extreme care of it as it was my first. Mammut 70m 9.8 Tusk.
I left to climb another route and later returned to find climbers WALKING ON MY ROPE LIKE A TIGHT-ROPE. Balancing on it on the floor, like you would when you follow the edge of a curb.
I honestly didnt know what to do.
They were new climbers obviously, and i was trying to make friends with the more experienced climbers (that now that I think back didnt even notice) so i could get into trad. I calmly took my rope down and told them they shouldnt ever step on a rope.
Anywho, stayed calm. Cool. Collected. Serene.
I left and have never let anyone borrow soft materials since.
Yup... and thats the way the cookie crumbled that day...

John Keller · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2001 · Points: 5

Any idea how the damage occurred? Perhaps a pendulum across an edge or something? Kind of assuming it would have been on the side of a climber who was tied in so it would have had to happen within about 10ft of the climber, right?

John Keller · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2001 · Points: 5

I grew up climbing in an area where we always shared each others topropes. It was great and, at least to my knowledge, there was never a problem.

Woodchuck ATC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 3,280

I share top ropes with others. I always go check their anchors and set up before I jump on their rope. Have no idea how this rope blew out holding a simple tension top rope fall of any kind unless it was a defective rope. And agree, no reason to use your ultra lightweight and costly 9point-anything for toprope climbs that take abuse. Get a cheap unwanted 10.2 for 125 bucks online somewhere and save your good ropes for your lead routes.

Benjamin Chapman · · Small Town, USA · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 18,818

NYClimber.....we've had this same situation occur to us twice, recently, while leading routes, setting TRs, and then allowing others to TR on our ropes. Like John Keller we've always shared TRs at popular areas. While the damage to your rope and the mental trauma you endured is regrettable, that sheath damage wasn't life threatening, as the core remains intact. Don't know about you, but we're planning to be much more cautious about who we allow to TR on our rope in the future.

Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 883
NYClimber wrote:and about 8 ft from the end - the sheath was tore right thru the core (see pics). We nearly died!
When did you nearly die? Huh. I didn't know you could get killed inspecting a rope. Pics don't show any core damage, just sheath.
NYClimber · · New York · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 85
Greg D wrote: When did you nearly die? Huh. I didn't know you could get killed inspecting a rope. Pics don't show any core damage, just sheath.
Figure of speech Greg D!
NYClimber · · New York · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 85

Thanks all for the great info.

I and my friends are the type of climbers who will share our gear with anyone - unless of course we see something really unsafe going on when using it or anyone else's gear for that matter as well.

We don't wanna be like one of the frikken 1-800-CALL-LAW numbers of something! We don't wanna have to be come 'Crag Police' nor take the fun and such out of climbing - as it should be.

With THAT said tho - directly or indirectly - I won't use a rope smaller that a fat rope for TR setups any longer, and, my confidence in Sterling ropes has now been shaken - and coincidence or not - I won't buy another one and will stick to the brand(s) that I have always used and had the best of luck with.

Thanks,

BSheriden · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2013 · Points: 0
Woodchuck ATC wrote:I share top ropes with others. I always go check their anchors and set up before I jump on their rope.
Good idea but not feasable at most places other than Devils Lake.
NYClimber · · New York · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 85
John Keller wrote:Any idea how the damage occurred? Perhaps a pendulum across an edge or something? Kind of assuming it would have been on the side of a climber who was tied in so it would have had to happen within about 10ft of the climber, right?
John. no pendulum that we are aware of. We've done that climb a few time and no real pendulum that we ever noticed.

Not really sure what may have happened since we weren't watching them honestly. It's mainly a overhanging route per se...
Woodchuck ATC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 3,280
BSheriden wrote: Good idea but not feasable at most places other than Devils Lake.
Not many other top rope friendly areas where you can do multiple set ups anyway, with massive crowds needing to share, so yeah, I'm speaking pretty much for Devils Lake kind of climbing for sure.
BSheriden · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2013 · Points: 0
Woodchuck ATC wrote: Not many other top rope friendly areas where you can do multiple set ups anyway, with massive crowds needing to share, so yeah, I'm speaking pretty much for Devils Lake kind of climbing for sure.
Obviously you have never been to the red river gorge or other popular sport climbing areas....

I know you don't set up the routes by walking to the top but go on a weekend and you still see tons of noobs sharing top ropes.
NYClimber · · New York · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 85
BSheriden wrote: Obviously you have never been to the red river gorge or other popular sport climbing areas.... I know you don't set up the routes by walking to the top but go on a weekend and you still see tons of noobs sharing top ropes.
I have never been to Red River Gorge - no.
jdberndt · · Seattle, WA · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 200

I happened to be reading the Bluewater technical manual and it may shed light on what happened to the rope.

Sheath "separating" on ropes prematurely.
In our 39 yeas of being in business as a manufacturer of life support lines we've seen cases of ropes described as "separating the first time we used it". We're always glad to inspect and evaluate ropes wear issues. Typically one of a few things has occurred:

1. Top rope set up and the belayer lowers the climber too fast then stops the climber just off the ground. The heat generated from the friction of a fast lower can reach temperature that will melt nylon [just over 400 degrees f. So the anchor point ['biner] is hot then the weight of the climber causes the rope to press against the hot section of anchor and the rope becomes rope glazed/ melted. The strong, flexible fibers are now a hard pack of brittle goo. The next time the rope is flexed or moves back over the guilty 'biner, the rope sheath will break open like an egg. Hence "sheath separation". This is a user error. Maybe the belay guy was bored. Just insist on a safe,controlled lower and your rope will not get totaled.

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911

If you lead the route your gear is usually in sight

Jason4 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2011 · Points: 0
BSheriden wrote: Good idea but not feasable at most places other than Devils Lake.
Some of the crags in Squamish are very easily walked around and TRed. That said it would also be very easy to look over 5 or 10 feet at the anchor on the next route before asking the group at the bottom to climb on their top rope.

Normally I wouldn't expect a group of strangers to ask to climb on my rope and I wouldn't leave my rope hanging on a route so once our group has climbed something we'll pull our kit quickly. I also wouldn't expect another group to walk their anchor from the top of one route to the top of the next route over and claim it as a group at the bottom is racking up to lead the same route. To me leading a route takes priority over top roping a route but that isn't always the etiquette up here.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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