Some Gunks specific gear questions

I'm starting to get on some harder stuff at the Gunks & some local areas, and I'm curious about 2 things in particular.

Does anyone carry & place the white .125 tricam?
I love my tricams & place them regularly, and the thought of 2 smaller ones sounds awesome, and I've even heard of them holding what appears to be more than they're rated for. I'm definitely getting the black, but wanted a second opinion on the white.

The other things is Ball Nuts, by Camp or Trango, pretty much the same thing, followed a friend up limelight the other day and a guy next to us had an old Lowe one and it reminded me to check them out. I know the downsides, know how they work, just want to see if anyone carries them regularly. I've definitely seen them written in as specific beta for harder climbs, and I feel like they would be nice to have in the pack for those thin climbs.

My normal partner has the blue,orange,red ballnuts, and when you get to a place where you need them, they're great.

Small cams (like metolius master cams) and small wires will probably do better for you than the small tricams, in my opinion. My only tricams are booty I got at the Gunks...

Ballnuts are sweet but not essential at the gunks.

If money isn't a problem, then load up on all the gear you want. Otherwise it comes down to how important it is to do the climbs that require the specific gear. I don't own a single ballnut and have waaay too much gear. But I've also not led anything harder than 8 in the gunks.

I've seen the white tricam placed a few times, but never as a critical piece (usually just to save a smaller alien from being placed for use later). I carry a full tricam set when at the gunks, and even have a double Pink. They're nice to plug in for head gear and save the cams for cruxes.

I lead up to 10b at the Gunks (so far!), so this answer depends on what you mean by "harder stuff."

I have the two smallest Ball Nuts (blue and red?). I don't carry them on everything, but I take them whenever I think the pro looks thin and the moves balancy. I've used them a few times, and they tend to come in handy. They do tend to fit in places where nothing else will go. But, they're sorta difficult to place, so I don't take them on steep juggy climbs.

I have the black tricam and use it every once in a while. Never thought about getting the smaller one, though. In fact, I've stopped taking my tricams on a lot of the harder stuff. Unless I KNOW I need it (e.g., to avoid the flexing flake on Apoplexy with that very awesome "secret" pink tricam placement; or in the upper part of Simple Suff), they stay on the ground. They're bulky on my harness and quite difficult to place with one hand (which is how most pro gets placed on the hard routes.) I know this is Gunks sacrilege, but they just don't seem to be worth the trouble on anything over 9 (with some exceptions). However, if I know I need to build a gear anchor, I'll bring them; if you have a stance to place from, they are bomber, and you don't have to worry about using any more precious cams than necessary in the anchor.

Someone once suggested to me that a few micro nuts help protect some of the thinner 10s. I tend to agree. I have some small brass nuts and the two smallest offset DMM peanuts. They've definitely come in handy on thin stuff. (Wasp, for instance, felt more secure with smaller nuts.)

I know this is more than you asked for, but seeing as how you seem to be in a place that I was in a few years ago (starting to break into the harder grades), I'll impart the small bit of wisdom I've learned. When I first started leading (and for about 7 years after that while I was too scared to try hard stuff on gear), I used to carry my entire rack (double set of cams, lots of nuts, tons of slings, cord, a billion lockers), to be sure that I had the gear I need. That is just not feasible when climbing closer to my limit. For an onsight of a Gunks 10, unless I know about a placement ahead of time that I 100% need, I carry a full set of nuts including small ones, black/blue/green aliens, and C4s to Yellow (#2), plus a few slings and a few sport draws. No cord unless I know I need it, and only 1-2 lockers. Stripping down my rack has been a godsend for harder climbing. Leaving the tricams (and even ballnuts) on the ground was difficult at first, but it feels ok now. I have yet to come across a place where I needed only one piece that I didn't have, especially with the slight overlap between the aliens and C4s. Usually, if I see a spot where that grey C4 would be great, only to realize that I placed it 2 pieces ago, I say "oh well, the purple fits about 2 feet to the left, so no problem!"

I know, that was way more information than you wanted. I just couldn't help myself! Also, if I've totally misread your level and you're cruising the Yellow Wall, I apologize and will put my foot back in my mouth now.

EDIT: In the time it took me to write that, 3 people responded saying essentially the same thing in about 90% fewer words...

i only carry pink, red, brown and agree with Kevin.. they are great for when you're at a good stance or anchor so you can use cams later. I like to place them as funny shaped nuts in weird cracks too. I think the small ones are more trouble then they are worth a lot of times.

I think the middle sized offset nuts are also a good thing to have (that i haven't got yet, but used others).
Edit: i also have a few of the BD micronuts)

I love mastercams and aliens in the small sizes. plus green C4 goes on just about every pitch i do ;)

The Williams guide tends to say if a route "needs" a ballnut or not. so if you have a specific route you want to do you might check that.

Black, Red, Pink Tricams...

Two smalles ball nutz...

None of them get much use these days but when they do they're priceless!

Alec, I thought your post was well thought out and detailed. Good advice.

Larry S wrote:My normal partner has the blue,orange,red ballnuts, and when you get to a place where you need them, they're great.

I was once on Moby Grape at Cannon when the leader of another party of three came up to the belay ledge and thru in one Ballnut as his only anchor. Yikes. We were not impressed and his two partners less so!

Anyway, Never liked those ball nuts but if I climbed at the Gunks on a regular basis I would most likely have them on my rack.

Doubles for sure - tri cams and cams.

not worth it, buy cams. like someone else said I have bootied a few there but have only used them on the rare retro day of not using cams.

I do know of a climb in the Uberfall area that is way easier with a tricam since a regular cam only goes in where you want your finger. can anyone name that climb???

Okay so I probably should have elaborated on my rack & ability.

Rack

C4s.3-3 Singles
C3s 0,1,2
Tricams .5-2 Doubles of .5&1 (Pink/Red)
BD Stoppers 4-13
Too many alpine runners (12)
4 Quickdraws
1 Single length nylon
1 Screamer (pins)
2 Double Length Dyneema (Shouldered)
2 Double Length Nylon (Shouldered)
Chordalette (gear anchor route)

As for what routes
I've done most of the 3 Star Routes in the Williams Guide up to 5.8+, as well as a few 9's and Retribution (5.10b)

Pretty much I want to do Double Crack, Directissma, Modern Times, Snookys Return, Bonnie's Roof, and a few others here & there, and afterwards really go hard at some 10s

I prefer to onsite, I really enjoy having little to no beta other than the route description, so I really do want to get my rack to be 'perfect' so that I can do that.

As far as my gear preferences, if I'm in a stance I almost always try to get a tricam or nut in rather than a cam & save them for when I'm in harder section, and I definitely place tricams one handed so anyone who says ditch them for that reason I don't believe.

And when I'm on easier terrain because myself or my partner aren't stoked to do something hard, I enjoy using only nuts & tricams to add a little fun to it haha.

Fall Guy wrote:not worth it, buy cams. like someone else said I have bootied a few there but have only used them on the rare retro day of not using cams. I do know of a climb in the Uberfall area that is way easier with a tricam since a regular cam only goes in where you want your finger. can anyone name that climb???

Pretty sure that is Retribution?

I know I placed a tricam before stepping out of the roof corner after clipping the pin, while iv'e heard other people placing a cam where my hands were.

Eddie2170 wrote: Pretty sure that is Retribution? I know I placed a tricam before stepping out of the roof corner after clipping the pin, while iv'e heard other people placing a cam where my hands were.

Passive red tricam under that roof at the outside corner. That's what i was thinking. That was my first 5.10 attempt on gear, i fell on that tricam twice.

(edit - I had gear beta from someone climbing next to us, I would not have found that on my own)

I placed a larger tricam, believe a brown, in the pocket where the dihedral & roof meet, I had done the route on TR over a year prior but had no gear beta, but knew I felt really strong on it so I figured it would go on lead for me.

Eddie2170 wrote:Okay so I probably should have elaborated on my rack & ability. Rack C4s.3-3 Singles C3s 0,1,2 Tricams .5-2 Doubles of .5&1 (Pink/Red) BD Stoppers 4-13 Too many alpine runners (12) 4 Quickdraws 1 Single length nylon 1 Screamer (pins) 2 Double Length Dyneema (Shouldered) 2 Double Length Nylon (Shouldered) Chordalette (gear anchor route) As for what routes I've done most of the 3 Star Routes in the Williams Guide up to 5.8+, as well as a few 9's and Retribution (5.10b) Pretty much I want to do Double Crack, Directissma, Modern Times, Snookys Return, Bonnie's Roof, and a few others here & there, and afterwards really go hard at some 10s I prefer to onsite, I really enjoy having little to no beta other than the route description, so I really do want to get my rack to be 'perfect' so that I can do that. As far as my gear preferences, if I'm in a stance I almost always try to get a tricam or nut in rather than a cam & save them for when I'm in harder section, and I definitely place tricams one handed so anyone who says ditch them for that reason I don't believe. And when I'm on easier terrain because myself or my partner aren't stoked to do something hard, I enjoy using only nuts & tricams to add a little fun to it haha.

I've done all of those routes that you named and you do not need any small tricams or ball nuts for them.

i don't think 12 runners is too many.. especially for Double Crack.

I feel that part of building a rack is what you find yourself wanting and using a lot or wishing you had. There is usually a huge variety of stuff you COULD place it just depends what your eye catches. I can find a spot for my .75 C4 just about anywhere.

Eddie2170 wrote:Pretty much I want to do Double Crack, Directissma, Modern Times, Snookys Return, Bonnie's Roof, and a few others here & there...

Nothing in that list that need tricams or ball nuts. I did the first all-nut ascent in the Gunks around 1968 with a handful of primitive (by today's standards) nuts ordered from Joe Brown. The climb was Double Crack.

I'd say that 95% of the time, standard gear will go where tricams go. The other 5%, tricams might be worth having. It's a myth that you regularly need tricams in the Gunks.

Ball Nuts are occasionally useful too. It is, of course, almost impossible to know ahead of time.

A number of the newer mid-range climbs in the Near Trapps seem to require fancier protection. I've used tricams on a 5.6 there (cams wouldn't work at all and you'd just be soloing the 5.6 moves) and ball nuts on a few routes (nothing else would work for some those placements, others might be protected by a lot of fiddling with small brassies, but the ball nuts were in any case much better).

Jake D. wrote: I've done all of those routes that you named and you do not need any small tricams or ball nuts for them. i don't think 12 runners is too many.. especially for Double Crack. I feel that part of building a rack is what you find yourself wanting and using a lot or wishing you had. There is usually a huge variety of stuff you COULD place it just depends what your eye catches. I can find a spot for my .75 C4 just about anywhere.

Oh for the routes I names I know my current rack is sufficient,

I more meant "To round out my rack for the Gunks would Smaller Tricams or Ball Nuts be a good addition now that I am getting into the 5.10s"

Shoudlve been how I started the thread, but oh well, and I feel like
sometimes I think 'wow I wish I didn't have so much gear', and don't place half of it, but then other times I finish a climb and think 'wow I wish I had triples of that size'which obviously is over the top

rgold wrote: Nothing in that list that need tricams or ball nuts. I did the first all-nut ascent in the Gunks around 1968 with a handful of primitive (by today's standards) nuts ordered from Joe Brown. The climb was Double Crack. I'd say that 95% of the time, standard gear will go where tricams go. The other 5%, tricams might be worth having. It's a myth that you regularly need tricams in the Gunks. Ball Nuts are occasionally useful too. It is, of course, almost impossible to know ahead of time. A number of the newer mid-range climbs in the Near Trapps seem to require fancier protection. I've used tricams on a 5.6 there (cams wouldn't work at all and you'd just be soloing the 5.6 moves) and ball nuts on a few routes (nothing else would work for some those placements, others might be protected by a lot of fiddling with small brassies, but the ball nuts were in any case much better).

That's more what I meant, after I climb the ones I named, I plan to do a bunch of 5.10's and go from there, just really looking to round out my rack

I should honestly just get a set of Aliens & stop avoiding it, but then I'd definitely tell myself i'm bringing too much gear

Dogs in Heat (5.11) takes a pink tricam at the crux. Not sure if anything else would go there as reliably or securely.

Eddie, if I were you, I would get at least green and yellow Aliens, and mabye the blue, plus brassie and aluminum offsets instead. I also liked a purple C3, IIRC - it takes R off many facey slabby climbs. I found placements for ballnutz at the Nears mostly, but very few in between. I find that Aliens fit in most tricam placements, so they're better investment, IMHO.

This thread is crazy. No need for weird gear at the gunks. I can count on one hand the number of mandatory brass wires I have placed. I can count on no hands how many times I wanted ballnuts.