Sporting Heritage Bill - more hunters at the crag?

Climbing in Wisconsin State Parks all occurs in "non-designated use areas," that is, in parts of the Parks that do not have a designated use like camping, picnicking or hiking.

Our State Assembly has passed a bill that will require all State Parks to allow hunting in all non-designated use areas. It might be a good idea to wear bright orange clothing the next time you go climbing at Devils Lake or at Governor Dodge State Park.

The Old Sandstone area at Devils Lake is already used for hunting on a limited basis - no problem, it's a small area, and the DNR posts signs during the few weeks this goes on. Now all of the other climbing areas could be as well.

You might want to contact your state representatives to find out more.

Not all hunters are happy with this situation:
host.madison.com/sports/rec…

Sweet, I am going to sit on top of the West Bluff trail with my rifle this fall and go hunting!

Or, is the trail on top of the bluffs "designated" and I will have to be 50 feet from them....

Really?! This is as stupid as the "right" to carry guns into the gallery at the state capitol and to now do so without a concealed carry class because the NRA has issues with a 4 hour class.

I'm thinking it won't really be an issue at the West Bluff - a hunter would have to be really stupid to try bagging something there with designated trails all around.

At the Lake this will most likely affect Steinke Basin, everything on the South Bluff, and everything East of the East Rampart. In other words, any rock that doesn't have trails running on all sides of it.

With deer season, small game season, and the spring turkey seasons, you will need to wear blaze orange for climbing from September through May. [edit: October through May]

It's not just climbers, either. Think of all the off-trail scramblers we see in the woods and boulder fields.

And its not just the Lake. This will certainly have implications for Gov Dodge, and for what little bouldering might still be left at Rib Mountain (anyone tried the newly acquired quarry out, yet?).

If I were still a hunter I'd be really pissed, like Durkin: this is just going to create conflict between hikers and hunters where there is none now. A couple of hunters may gain in the short term, but in the long run hunters will regret burning that good will.

Climbing is allowed in parts of Rib Mountain now?

A few of us are planning to go to the public listening session in Fitchburg next Monday:

dnr.wi.gov/about/nrb/2012/A…

If you care to join us, contact me. My main concern is that active climbing areas be excluded from the expansion of hunting areas.

There are listening sessions in several other parts of the State as well. We need to let the DNR know that hunters are not the only people out there in the woods!

Doug Hemken wrote:Rib Mountain (anyone tried the newly acquired quarry out, yet?).

Does ICE form in that quarry at all?

Putting this here so I can find it later ....

dnr.wi.gov/topic/hunt/dates…

Johnny, I don't think anyone is scared, since most of us probably hunt ourselves. The main concern here is that we have A LOT of hunters in WI, and we are limited to smaller chunks of public land for hunting and climbing. We don't have the luxury as you do out in NV of having the whole state being wide open with public lands. The chance of you walking through the woods to go bouldering during hunting season and running into a hunter is pretty damn good in Wisco. That being said, I think Doug is just trying to make everyone aware of whats going on, and to be a conscious, and well informed user group.
Cheers,
Remo

Jonny,

There are more than 10 times as many hunters in Wisconsin as Nevada, in a State that is smaller and has much less public land. The hunting environment is a bit different in the North Woods than the Great Basin, with lines of sight often more limited. And we have a lot fewer rocks.

Hunters don't want climbers wandering through the middle of their hunt, and climbers don't want hunters shooting around the crags or boulders.

I live in the middle of Madison, and I can hunt within 15 minutes of my house. I have to drive about an hour to climb, and I'm *very* lucky the drive is that short. There are (already) many more places to hunt here than to climb, including the hunting that is (already) allowed in most of our State Parks.

Come spend some time hunting or climbing in Wisconsin, and I think you'll see why having hunters and climbers working the same patch of woods is not really the greatest idea the Legislature has had.

We have an opportunity to limit the conflict and the access issues, if we speak up now.

http://www.outdoorhub.com/news/wisconsin-natural-resources-board-sessions-set-on-hunting-and-trapping-in-state-parks/

"A determination to prohibit hunting ... can only be approved to protect public safety or unique natural resources such as fragile plant or animal habitat."

Even our Legislature recognizes that there is a potential public safety issue here.

"...the department is proposing that the board allow hunting in parks from Oct. 15 through the Thursday prior to the Memorial Day weekend."

If you only want to climb during the summer, and you only want to climb right next to an official trail, then you probably don't need to think about all this.

johnnyrig wrote: What caught my attention here, ... is the overall tone of ... conjecture.

This line makes me smile.

Ask yourself, who is displacing whom in this situation?

The WDNR regularly acquires new land open for hunting. But when the WDNR acquires new land with significant climbing resources - including properties with a history of climbing (Gibraltar, Quincy Bluff) - climbers are automatically banned.

It's true that we all need to live together and share our common resources: I'm asking that hunters do that.

It also makes me smile to see a Nevadan with no sense of the local reality trying to reframe local issues and telling me what to think. My TV is full of exactly that, these days! The irony is just too sweet!

And I gotta say, Jonny, this is also a hoot:

johnnyrig wrote: Are you really that scared?

I think the last time I heard someone offer that as a well-reasoned and insightful argument was in middle school? Many folks here will doubt I can remember back that far ... but I can, barely!

I do appreciate the opportunity to clarify my thoughts. Thanks.

More notes, email from the session coordinator:

"The format will be:

Registration at the door
Folks can then choose to stay and make oral comments or leave written comments
We will have loose copies of all state park maps
The first 30 minutes will be an open house where you can talk to DNR staff
At 7:00 we will complete a short ppt on the Department's proposal
After that comments can be presented. "

Peter Biermeier
Recreation, Planning and Development Chief
Wisconsin State Park System
Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources

We are going to need to think seriously about trapping, too. In my winter rambles, I notice a lot of fur-bearers spend time around all of our rocks. I hope the DNR will be able to give us a map of where all the traps are located before we go out to the cliffs and boulders!

An good overview of the process by Pat Durkin:

host.madison.com/sports/rec…

I think Durkin makes it clear that the DNR will only be allowed to act on our behalf if we let them know SPECIFICALLY where we go in "non-designated use areas" (ALL climbing areas are non-designated use areas).

i went to the meeting as a climber, but a i feel the greatest threat that this new policy represents is to the winter users of the trails. any of us that are interested in "silent sports" should feel threatened, and for good cause virtually all of the popular ski trails in southern wisconsin are going to be open to hunting and trapping. trapping is what i really feel the greater issue to be, people with guns can choose what to shoot, traps have no such distinction, and that is a problem. we need to write to our representatives and voice our opinions.

ben "fuzzy" fellenz

johnnyrig wrote:Somebody is going to sue the government because they were "allowed" to risk their life on public land. Don't laugh... it happened here. Dog jumps in hot spring, starts boiling to death. Owner jumps in after dog, eventually dies as a result. Significant other sues government. Government has to fence off and post warning signs around hot spring. In the middle of Black Rock Desert (two hours from real civilization).

"Those people" are ruining this country. I think the jury should be equipped with bats. The second you push forth a frivolous lawsuit like that they spring forth and beat you to within an inch of your life for being a gigantic A-Hole. It all started with that old bag with the mcdonald's coffee. America owes her a big fat "F**k you". The thing that bothers me about that one is that Iced Coffee wasn't even really a "thing" back then. If you ordered coffee it came boiling hot, PERIOD. No ifs ands or buts about it. Hell if it came to you any less than boiling hot you'd return the MF'er and ask them for a fresh one. Sue happy pieces of crap. They are squeezing the life out of America bit by bit.

johnnyrig wrote:Or, you know, at least not dress up like a deer.

But I crush it when I'm dressed like a deer!

Here is my idea of where the DNR doesn't know we are climbing, and that we don't want to abandon for 6 months out of the year:

Blue lines are around zones I think should be excluded from expanded hunting:

Off trail climbing

That map looks good, but does it cover all the Steinke Basin rocks? I thought they were farther east than that.

Thanks for keeping us all informed.

Josh,

I've updated the map to show all of the Steinke Basin rocks/boulders that I know of (all the ones in Swartling & Mayer). I included the hiking trail you take if you are coming from the upper lot, as well as the cross country route I took the last time I was there.

I've also reduced the boundaries of that zone. I would close the area West of the Rescue road, North of Steinke Creek, and South of the Johnson Moraine/East Bluff Woods Trail, with a 100 yard buffer. (Actually I think 200 yards is a much more rational buffer.)

Doug Hemken wrote:Here is my idea of where the DNR doesn't know we are climbing, and that we don't want to abandon for 6 months out of the year: Blue lines are around zones I think should be excluded from expanded hunting: Off trail climbing

I've added the rest of the data I have on these four areas. If anyone else has waypoints or approach trails they'd be willing to share, email me.