Eldo sucks AKA the crag blasphemer's thread

It really depends on what is in your back yard. I climb in the Splatte a lot and to be honest I get more excited to go to Eldo. Seems stupid but I get tired of wandering around in the woods to try and find shit and I get tired of crack climbing.

Eldo suits my climbing style though so I guess that could be some of it.

EMT wrote: ^^^^^^^That;s funny! and true. Really how can anyone even in jest bag on Yose? Don't you think that some of the hype comes from the fact that it's the first good climbing you hit when driving west across the plains? It's a world class place for sure. It's just different, so for some it might not be their cup of tea.

This is not in jest. I've only been to the big ditch once, stayed a month and had a good time, but have never had even the slightest desire to go back.

Just for the record, I'd bang Salma Hayek on the rag.

I also climb in the rain at the New.

Go figure.

Kenan wrote: For anyone who thinks that "Eldo sucks", I would be very interested in seeing a ticklist of the routes you've climbed in Eldo to bring you to this conclusion. Care to share?

I think it's over-hyped, and my ticklist is too long to list, but here's a couple off the top of my head (it's been a few years):

yellow spur
green spur
bastille crack
genesis
naked edge
rosy crusifiction
rincon
center route on rincon
climb of the century
equinox

The issue isn't that there aren't incredible routes (all the above listed are pretty awesome), but that the ratio of incredible routes to utter choss is very high.

Ed Wright wrote: I said that and I stand by my belief. Have you ever experienced the amazing quartzite at Devil's Lake? If not, you need to stop laughing and go check it out.

DL is an acquired taste and Eldo certainly sucks but in a good way.

Eldo is not for everyone and that's okay. We don,t call it the "sandstone junkyard museum " for nothin. The classics here can be done over and over. Most of the well travelled routes do not have any loose rock and if they do,like Derek H. Use to say "you only need to pull on the hold a wee bit" I.E. Tread lightly! Sure there might be better areas,but where else could I OWN a house and walk 5 minutes from my door and have some great climbs at my finger tips! As an added bonus I can watch folks on the Naked edge from my deck while swilling cheap swill.
As for Devil,s Lake ,like Tony said a lot of us DLFA types moved here manŷ ŷears ago (29yrs.)to climb in Eldo but we also "NEEDED" to get out west to become more well rounded climbers .....I.e. multi pitch,route finding,crack climbing technique,mountain weather,epics,and back country skiing to name a few. Devil,s lake has some great rock and is a great place to learn how to pull down and has a great community and was the scene of some of the best care free days of my youth....but it is limited!
As a side note,could someone please describe "world class" ? Peace and fuk-nes Steve S. another reason us Dlfa losers moved west was to be closer to the "Ditch"

Steve Sangdahl wrote:As a side note,could someone please describe "world class" ? Peace and fuk-nes Steve S.

My working definition of world class is that it is worth flying from a different continent for, and if you happen to live near one world class destination, another is still worth traveling to.

By that metric, very little in the Front Range is world class, although there are a few places in Colorado that are world class. Rifle and the Black come to mind. Vedauwoo is not world class, but Devils Tower is world class. Indian Creek is world class, but Arches National Park is not. These are all great places, and if the drive isn't too far, worth visiting. But I just could never justify spending $1500 to fly from France (for instance) to climb in Eldo or Vedauwoo if I wasn't also tagging some real world class places in the process.

Brian Scoggins wrote: My working definition of world class is that it is worth flying from a different continent for, and if you happen to live near one world class destination, another is still worth traveling to.

That's a pretty good definition.

So let's see, I live in London and can be at a half dozen or more "world class" areas in less than 8 hours for a lot less than $1500. So if I were going to fly to N. America to climb, it would be at one of the following areas:

- Yosemite (or anywhere in the High Sierra)
- Southern Utah (not just IC but Castle Valley, etc).
- Wind River Range (was gonna last year but bailed - never been)
- Bugaboos
- Sqamish?
- Cochise Stronghold (great winter weather and no bullshit)
- New River Gorge (including the Red if the weather sucks)
- Gunks and Dacks because it is only a 7 hour flight and only about $600
- NC because it's my home and the flight is same as for NY

MorganH wrote: I think it's over-hyped, and my ticklist is too long to list, but here's a couple off the top of my head (it's been a few years): yellow spur green spur bastille crack genesis naked edge rosy crusifiction rincon center route on rincon climb of the century equinox The issue isn't that there aren't incredible routes (all the above listed are pretty awesome), but that the ratio of incredible routes to utter choss is very high.

Well, let's just say that you and I live in different universes. To tick those routes and be unimpressed is mind-boggling to me. There are over 1,000 routes in that canyon and so many are classics. The place has always resonated with me. Oh well, different strokes for different folks. I really should just STFU so this "Eldo sucks" concept can really have a chance to take hold.

Brian Scoggins wrote: My working definition of world class is that it is worth flying from a different continent for, and if you happen to live near one world class destination, another is still worth traveling to. By that metric, very little in the Front Range is world class, although there are a few places in Colorado that are world class. Rifle and the Black come to mind. Vedauwoo is not world class, but Devils Tower is world class. Indian Creek is world class, but Arches National Park is not. These are all great places, and if the drive isn't too far, worth visiting. But I just could never justify spending $1500 to fly from France (for instance) to climb in Eldo or Vedauwoo if I wasn't also tagging some real world class places in the process.

Interesting that you picked Devil's Tower and not the Tetons as the world class destination of Wyoming. They seem fairly similar, IE, the draw is more the view than the movement on rock. Perhaps Jackson Hole is a similar city to Boulder in that the term "world class" applies more to the overall experience of climbing in and in the vicinity of the city than it does to climbing in any one of those areas. (I would concede that the variety and sheer amount of climbing in and around Boulder would earn my $1500 for a trip if I lived overseas, whereas any of those areas alone would not)

Eldo, CCC, Flatirons and Boulder Canyon alone? Eh, cool enough. But all four within 30 mins of each other? Pretty extraordinary.

Brian Scoggins wrote: I just could never justify spending $1500 to fly from France (for instance) to climb in Eldo.

It's funny you said that because I've toured some ripping strong French climbers around Eldo who flew here just to climb on the Front Range and they seemed pretty psyched.

I haven't climbed in the Tetons, but what I hear is that the rock is kinda lousy compared to RMNP. But that's just what I've heard.

I thought the character of routes at Devils Tower put it in standing with Yosemite or Indian Creek in terms of singular cracks, and the position made up for the low number of routes.

+1 for American Fork. American fork is claimed to be a sport climbing destination but as a previous poster mentioned, it's similar movement on solid, but horribly featured, (polished) stone.

also +1 for granite ruining your perspective on everything.

once you've flavored some unbelievable granite routes, including alpine exposure and perfect friction filled splitters, you lose relative understanding.

Zion is awesome... and whoever says nah doesn't get that zion is like a sandstone yosemite without the unbelievable logistics.

speaking of yosemite... I won't go there. :)

Brian Scoggins wrote: My working definition of world class is that it is worth flying from a different continent for, and if you happen to live near one world class destination, another is still worth traveling to.

I don't like that definition. Maybe it's because I'm poor but I can't think of any rock climbing destination outside of North America that I'm willing to fly to. I would for example try to get the money together to make a trip to SA to go to Patagonia and the Cordillera Blanca but even having a friend who lives down there I can't convince myself to spend the money to go down there and just go to say Cochamo. Same for Europe. I'd go for the Alps and if I did some cragging awesome but I'm not making a special trip out there to go to say Ceuse.

You could say i'm being alpinecentric but even for alpine I'm more willing to go to places that are closer to me. Classic is a rough defenition. I'd argue it's somewhere you're willing to save up time and money just to go to. In which case I don't know that I'd put any Colorado areas in that category except maybe The Black and RMNP.

It also depends on what kind of climbing you're into. The two areas I just named don't mean crap to a sport climber.

Brian Scoggins wrote:I haven't climbed in the Tetons, but what I hear is that the rock is kinda lousy compared to RMNP. But that's just what I've heard. I thought the character of routes at Devils Tower put it in standing with Yosemite or Indian Creek in terms of singular cracks, and the position made up for the low number of routes.

Very true. Gorgeous routes. Basalt corner cracks are quite awesome.

Ryan Williams wrote: But I don't think it is fair to say that the Gritstone isn't worth an international trip because it's short. It is some of the best rock you'll ever climb, and if you have ever climbed here you know that topping out a 40 foot E3 feels about the same as topping out a 100 foot 5.11 at most single pitch US crags. A lot of fun to be had on these "short" crags.

I don't disagree about the fun, my friend. But as you say it is a local crag. And the weather is likely crap at any time. There is a reason why tap water contains residual traces of antidepressants in England.

+1 for the sentiment that looking at Eldo outside of its phenomenal nearby rock contexts is misunderstood.

I have climbed only Keiners on Longs, but isn't the Diamond considered world class?

Oh, one final thought. If the rain at the New bothers you, you need to discover the overhanging areas and the killer boating that goes with the climbing like peas and carrots.

Alex Quitiquit wrote: also +1 for granite ruining your perspective on everything. once you've flavored some unbelievable granite routes, including alpine exposure and perfect friction filled splitters, you lose relative understanding

I disagree with this.I thought the quality of the climbing in yosemite to be pretty underwhelming. The length and convenience more than makes up for it, but it was rare that I did a pitch I would bother to do if it were on the ground at a local sandstone crag.

jmeizis wrote: I don't like that definition. Maybe it's because I'm poor but I can't think of any rock climbing destination outside of North America that I'm willing to fly to. I would for example try to get the money together to make a trip to SA to go to Patagonia and the Cordillera Blanca but even having a friend who lives down there I can't convince myself to spend the money to go down there and just go to say Cochamo. Same for Europe. I'd go for the Alps and if I did some cragging awesome but I'm not making a special trip out there to go to say Ceuse. You could say i'm being alpinecentric but even for alpine I'm more willing to go to places that are closer to me. Classic is a rough defenition. I'd argue it's somewhere you're willing to save up time and money just to go to. In which case I don't know that I'd put any Colorado areas in that category except maybe The Black and RMNP. It also depends on what kind of climbing you're into. The two areas I just named don't mean crap to a sport climber.

The definition works - you just don't seem interested in seeing other parts of the world. If you were, then you'd be willing to spend money to see the best areas of the world (the ones that aren't in N. America).

I think to travel outside of North America you have to be going for more than just climbing. Sure there are a lot of world class areas in SA, Europe, etc (world class no matter what your definition). But you could spend your whole life in NA and not see it all. So to leave that continent you must be motivated by the need to travel and see different things. If you are into that, then you'll spend a lot to travel.

I'm no alpinist but Chamonix and the Western Swiss Alps are just two of many areas that I'd guess any alpine climber would want to see - even if just for their historical significance and amazingly different cultures. If you don't care about history and culture, you'll probably end up saving your money for longer trips to RMNP, Tetons, Bugs, etc.

As far as Ceuse, you don't just go there. You combine a trip to Ceuse with a trip to Verdon. If you're a sport climber and don't have those two areas on your "world class" list then something is wrong with you.