American Fork DUI Checkpoint

Taylor Ogden wrote: Oh and someone mentioned something about DUI checks at all Utah borders?

I hear that if you have a green plate, they're making you go through TSA style security and dismantling your car at the border. Then they hand you a phillips head and tell you good luck putting it back together. Sorry, 'rado. We'd love to share the Creek, but I guess the guvment has a different idea.

Another DUI checkpoint was in Millcreek Canyon on July 6-7.

Just be aware that Utah law enforcement has been utilizing checkpoints more frequently than in the past up in the canyons and climbers can often be tempting targets for these guys.

Zenetopia pointed out that he was detained and searched primarily due to his 'bloodshot' eyes. Unfortunately, the legal application of 'probable cause' is generally whatever the police officer decides it is; more subjective than our climbing grades!

While you can deny them permission to search your vehicle, requiring them to obtain a permit from a judge to do so. However, in today's age of technology many of these checkpoints are utilizing Ipads and cell connections to request a digital search warrant and can be obtained within 5-minutes in many cases. Don't count on being released because it would take too long to obtain the search warrant. This tactic was used with great success earlier this year in the Holladay area around Highland Drive and approx. 6200 S.

In Utah law enforcement departments are required by law to give 24 hours advance notice of any dui checkpoints.

Mark Lewis wrote:Zenetopia pointed out that he was detained and searched primarily due to his 'bloodshot' eyes. Unfortunately, the legal application of 'probable cause' is generally whatever the police officer decides it is; more subjective than our climbing grades!

...and if you do decide to dispute it in court, it'll be your word against the cop, correct? Seems like a pretty hard win.

I see both sides of the argument. But it seems like the situations that get out of control are the ones where people are being difficult, innocent or not. The cops are just people trying to do their jobs that they are told to do by their superiors. In my experience, when I am polite and patient, they are more polite and easy going. Keep in mind the number of complete jerks, morons, and oh I don't know...actually guilty people they have to deal with all the time. Cops get killed in "routine" traffic stops, so can you really blame them for being a little extra careful/on edge when they are working? For every jerk cop out there, there are 99 more just trying to do their job and get home and the end of the day and even trying to keep the rest of us safe.
If you REALLY have a problem with this, maybe try actually taking the problem to the higher authorities who are in charge. Instead of taking it out on the guy in front of you, maybe just ask politely where and when DUI notifications are posted and who you can send your input to? If you do it in a pleasant tone, I bet they will happily tell you what you want to know and it will all be over before you know it.

You make some good points in your post, but this isn't one of them:

Christian "crisco" Burrell wrote:Cops get killed in "routine" traffic stops, so can you really blame them for being a little extra careful/on edge when they are working?

Any way you slice or dice it, an LEO knows what he/she is getting into when they sign up for the job. Same with EMTs, firefighters, or any other job that involves putting yourself into a potentially risky situation. I think it's a little disingenuous to say that we shouldn't blame the officer if they treat someone disrespectfully.

Also- in your idealistic rhetoric about cops trying to keep the rest of us safe, remember that we're talking about a DUI checkpoint here. The cops weren't called to respond to a scene, they weren't on a routine patrol... this is a tactic that is unlawful in many states.

This thread is hilarious.

Cops are going to do whatever they want to do. It's getting worse all over the country.

I was charged with a DUI even though they found nothing in my car and never gave me anything more than the field sobriety test which the pig testified in court that I failed but told me on the side of the road that I passed. He pulled me over for a tail light out. I hadn't been drinking or doing anything else illegal but I looked like hell after a 14 hour day on a mountain. He said my eyes looked like they were bleeding and that I had a fast pulse. Tried all kinds of coercive bullshit to get me to admit to something I didn't do and then just lied through his teeth to the judge.

The DA dropped the charges after a year and a half legal battle and a judge found me NOT guilty of the other various bullshit the filthy pig charged me with after another six months and two more court appearances.

The fact that it cost me nearly $8k to "prove" my innocence is why people don't "stand up for their rights".

Welcome to the police state.

Wow Leeroy, and you're such a nice guy too! Why on earth would a cop want to hassle YOU?

j/k. That sounds like an awful experience.

Jake Jones wrote:This thread should be labeled "American Fk U Checkpoint".

lol, I should have!

I know there are a lot of good cops out there just doing their job, but unfortunately there are also too many who are on a power trip and enjoy harassing people who aren't harming anyone. These cops ruin the reputation for the rest.

In my teenage and college years my friends and I were continually harassed, and usually we weren't doing anything wrong other than being in an age group that cops consider suspect. Also, I'm a white male, I don't even want to think about how much worse if would have been if I were a minority.

One example of crooked cops: I went to school at UC Santa Barbara, a place which (deservedly) has a reputation as a party school. Going along with the party school atmosphere are a small number of people who get drunk and either vandalize property or fight. This necessitates police. I have no problem with that. My problem is that instead of focusing on preventing and catching these few people, they instead chose to focus on a campaign to "end underage drinking". As if none of the actual crimes were committed by individuals who were over 21. If you have an emergency requiring police in Isla Vista on a Saturday evening, don't expect any help. There will be nobody at the station to answer the phone. They are all too busy out on the streets arresting people for allegedly (we'll get to this in a bit) being drunk in public (DIP). Once when a girl crashed her car adjacent to a blind curve in the road, 911 would only transfer my friend (who witnessed the crash) to the Isla Vista foot patrol, who weren't answering the phone because it was a Saturday evening. SB police wouldn't help because it wasn't their jurisdiction. It was clearly a safety hazard with a crashed car in the road on a blind curve, but you could see that the priority was on filling their quota of DIPs, not on actually protecting and serving the public.

On an average Saturday evening, the police have several vans that they fill with people who are allegedly drunk, and transport them to jail. However, during Halloween, a massive crackdown occurs, and they replace the vans with full size school buses. The thing is, unlike for a DUI, the cops for some reason don't need to prove that you are drunk. Their suspicion is all that's necessary. You get no breathalyzer, no sobriety test, nothing. Couple this with a quota of minimum arrests for each cop, and you have a recipe for innocent sober people getting arrested with no way to prove they are not drunk!

On Halloween, a bunch of us were dressed up for the festivities, but knowing about the massive crackdown, we didn't drink much at all. My good friend literally had two beers over the course of dinner before going out. He would have been well within the legal limit to drive. We were all standing around outside just talking, not yelling, not cussing, not causing a scene, or doing anything rambunctious at all. Up come a couple crooked Isla Vista Foot Patrol officers, and without saying a word, they just grab my friend and walk off with him. We all started asking what was going on, which was answered with threats of more arrests.

My friend was taken to the next block, informed he was being arrested for public intoxication (despite his arguments that he wasn't drunk, and pleas for a breathalizer), cuffed, and told to sit on the curb to await the bus to jail. When the bus arrived, the officers grabbed him by the arms and began to lift him to his feet, but halfway up they let go. Not expecting them to let go he began to fall forward, and with his hands behind his back he couldn't catch himself. He face planted and took most the skin off one half of his face. The police report read "suspect was so intoxicated that he fell onto his face from a sitting position and was unable to catch himself". If that's not some corrupt bullshit than I don't know what is!

In court the judge lined my friend up with many other victims, and began to tell them boogeyman stories about all the bad things that could happen if they plead "not guilty" and lost (loose your license for a year, thousands of dollars in fines, permanent record, etc). Then he offered them a nice plea deal that they could take where they "only" had to pay [I think it was $400] and take a zona seca class and they could go with nothing on their record. Needless to say, most of the victims were scared and took the deal. My friend got an attorney, and soon the charges were dropped. The attorney said that if more people fought it this wouldn't be happening, but they get so much money from the plea deals that there is great motivation for the state to continue the racket. And that's just what it is, a racket.

I've got a host of other stories like this as well. Nowadays I have a decent job and wear mostly collared shirts (when I'm not climbing) so I don't get hassled so much, but I remember. Kind of reminds me of the book "The Once and Future King" where the knights of the round table, that originally were instrumental in instilling peace in the community, get bored when crime goes down and begin harassing the citizens. Does might make right?

This is why I always laugh when I see cops on the side of the road asking for donations or respect. Get your colleagues under control, and then you can have my respect.

Sorry for the long post, this topic touched a nerve.

Thanks for sharing Cory - as the maxim goes: power corrupts. The more power an individual or organization has the more they become corrupted themselves.

It's frightening, though expected, to hear people's horror stories with regards to law enforcement. I know I have my share of those experiences!

that shit sucks, but what else is new in the stupid state of utah...

I heard "Son do you know why I'm stoppin' you for?"
Cause I'm young and I'm black and my hats real low?
Do I look like a mind reader sir, I don't know
Am I under arrest or should I guess some mo'?
"Well you was doin fifty-five in a fifty-fo' "
"Liscense and registration and step out of the car"
"Are you carryin' a weapon on you I know a lot of you are"
I ain't steppin out of shit all my paper's legit
"Well, do you mind if I look round the car a little bit?"
Well my glove compartment is locked so are the trunk in the back
And I know my rights so you gon' need a warrant for that
"Aren't you sharp as a tack, you some type of lawyer or something'?"
"Or somebody important or somethin'?"
Nah, I ain't pass the bar but i know a little bit
Enough that you won't illegally search my shit.

Different tribe same problem. Sound advice on the "do you mind if I search your car" question. Jay Z, 99 problems.

We'll see how smart you are when the K9 comes...

Cor wrote:that shit sucks, but what else is new in the stupid state of utah...

Well I guess add West Virginia to the stupid states too. They had a dui/drug checkpoint with drug sniffing dogs on HWY 19 outside Summersville when I was there 2 weeks ago. Its not just Utah but feel free to keep your green plates outta our state.

well rocky ted,

that shit just sucks too!
i grew up in good ol' pennsylvania, climbed at the gunks & the new
from '90 to '98, never seen a thing like that back then.
it must really suck to live there now! oh yeah, and when i visit...
you will see i am driving a car with pa plates.
(thanks mom & dad for the ride!)

cheers!
cor

ps: thanks for joining the community of mountainproject the other day!
i will keep my green plates out. :D

I'm confused....if you specifically want to dress and look like a dirt bag, education or not, don't you want to be treated like a dirt bag as well? Or is that just a facade to impress chicks and not grow up? I look like shit most of the time, getting a little long in the tooth you might say, but I've been leaned over a car enough to know that if I keep my smart ass mouth shut I'll probably drive away unscathed. And also don't drink, drive or hold in a well patroled area. Kind of a no brainer.

Taylor Ogden wrote: While I agree that you shouldn't let "the man" walk all over you, I think that if a cop wanted to search my car, and I was certain I had nothing illegal inside, I'd agree just to avoid the drama that refusing would be sure to raise.

All well and good until the cop decides that a little nubbin of dirt is a pot seed--or just decides to plant a bag of weed on you.

Keny Glasscock wrote:I'm confused....if you specifically want to dress and look like a dirt bag, education or not, don't you want to be treated like a dirt bag as well? Or is that just a facade to impress chicks and not grow up? I look like shit most of the time, getting a little long in the tooth you might say, but I've been leaned over a car enough to know that if I keep my smart ass mouth shut I'll probably drive away unscathed. And also don't drink, drive or hold in a well patroled area. Kind of a no brainer.

These are comforting words from the guy managing my property.

Keny Glasscock wrote:I'm confused....if you specifically want to dress and look like a dirt bag, education or not, don't you want to be treated like a dirt bag as well?

Could be a defense for profiling as well, eh glasscock? It's OK for cops to "judge a book by its cover" in your eyes?

If I was a cop I would pull over and search every single dread, especially the white ones.