Fast and light tips

APBT1976 wrote: I did not say 18% was high.. 4-6% is stupid low and 18% quite normal for most people.

Gonna agree big time on this one. 5% can mean you end up burning muscle on a calorie consuming trip. That's not helpful to you. I'm speaking from personal experience here.

You could always adopt the Mick Fowler diet. A cereal bar for breakfast, two hard candies per day and a packet of Ramen noodles for the evening. This for an 8-day ascent of a "disturbingly steep" 20,000' peak in Sichuan Province. See himalayanclub.org/journal/s….

Spri wrote:I'm speaking from personal experience here...

...as someone who has no fat...

Martin le Roux wrote:You could always adopt the Mick Fowler diet. A cereal bar for breakfast, two hard candies per day and a packet of Ramen noodles for the evening. This for an 8-day ascent of a "disturbingly steep" 20,000' peak in Sichuan Province. See himalayanclub.org/journal/s….

Hah! Sound like my Dad when he joined up with us for the last leg of our Pacific Crest Trail thru-hike. He was trying to treat it as a weight loss program. Started totally dragging at mile 15 for the day... and that was only the halfway point. I asked him what he had eaten and he showed me a Nature Valley granola wrapper. I just laughed. You certainly have to fuel the machine.

kBobby wrote: ...as someone who has no fat...

Correct, I have almost none :D It definately helps to have some fat on you.

Spri wrote:It definately helps to have some fat on you.

I guess I'm good then. ;)

Experience, fitness and knowing exactly what you need are the keys to going "fast and light", not choices made at REI.

FLAG

Agree 100%

Also i am pretty sure i said it but the keeping fueled on a long or hard trip is very very important "not a one day adventure" but multi day.

Training is for starving yourself and even then you want to eat and starve your self strategically.

JLP wrote:The only real way to go "fast and light" as a rock climber is to skip the bivy altogether.

Agree.

The best lightweight gear to bring is an alarm clock and a cup of coffee. Wake up EARLY and do the thing in a day. Leave the tent, sleeping pad, sleeping bag, and stove at home. On the approach you should have rope, rack, water (good advice earlier on water, if you'll be passing a stream on the approach I'd start with your bottle mostly empty and fill it at the last opportunity), food, jacket, and a headlamp.

If you're going to be approaching one day and climbing the next, you're pack will be heavy on the approach no matter what. By the time you add rack, rope, harness, climbing shoes, etc to your camping stuff it's difficult to call it "going light", even with the fancy down sleeping bag, pepsi-stove, etc. Sure those things help, but don't plan on picking up your pack and thinking "wow this thing feels empty!" Since it's heavy anyway, and you won't be needing to go fast on approach day (you've got all day to get to the base), you may as well throw a few extra comforts in like trekking poles (helpful when humping heavy loads over rough terrain), coffee for the morning, and some decent food.

Training definitely helps. I remember being somewhat intimidated re: an upcoming climbing/backpacking trip to the Cirque Of The Towers. I wasn't getting out as much as I had hoped (it was a hot summer in Vegas, and I was working quite a bit, plus my diet was crap at the time), so I went to the gym that I belong to after work at midnight, and trained for a couple of weeks straight. I brought my full, heavy backpack of what I would be bringing along, and did the stair master for an hour, or two at a time, and even jogged on the treadmill with my pack on. This training may seem like overkill but it helped my cardio dramatically, and quickly.  The cardio training I did before our trip was sufficient for the long approach to the Cirque Of The Towers carrying a heavy pack, and I did fine on the two long routes we did at high altitude back to back (two days in a row).  I wasn't even sore after our trip, and felt good afterwards. Although,  I did stub my toe on the hike out, "OUCH!" (wasn't wearing boots-wore Nike tennies) and lost a toenail, but it grew back beautifully.  

Edit to add: we didn't have to lug water in the Winds, as there was water everywhere along the way to filter. We generally do quite a bit of desert hiking/long climbing approaches, so we are accustomed to carrying lots of heavy water on our backs, so not carrying much water into the Winds was nice for a change! : )

At a certain point sacrificing weight correlates to your tolerance for suffering and running it out. Experience and credit card limit will tell you were that is.

pT

Build a fire and make a ground bed.

In lots of situations, you can get by without stove & fuel, tent/tarp, pad, and sleeping bag (I usually carry a puffy, hat, and baselayer bottoms if I forgo the bag). Between a pack, a rope, and local vegetation, you can usually pad and insulate yourself pretty well. Some of the most comfortable nights I've spent outside were on a bed of pine boughs or dry grasses. Obviously this is harder if you're dealing with wet/snowy conditions. Also, make sure you prevent the fire from setting your bed ablaze.

You can save the weight of a water filter by using iodine tabs. Those new battery gizmos are out there to, but I've never used them.

Learn local edibles to save weight on food.
Berries, greens, roots, fungi, grubs, insects, nuts, etc. I'm not suggesting you become a hunter here (though that's great if you have the time), but just being aware of what you are walking through can score you some calories. Plus, it's kinda fun to add taste to the way you experience your environment. Moths are particularly worth eating.

Newton wrote:Build a fire and make a ground bed. In lots of situations, you can get by without stove & fuel, tent/tarp, pad, and sleeping bag (I usually carry a puffy, hat, and baselayer bottoms if I forgo the bag). Between a pack, a rope, and local vegetation, you can usually pad and insulate yourself pretty well. Some of the most comfortable nights I've spent outside were on a bed of pine boughs or dry grasses. Obviously this is harder if you're dealing with wet/snowy conditions. Also, make sure you prevent the fire from setting your bed ablaze. You can save the weight of a water filter by using iodine tabs. Those new battery gizmos are out there to, but I've never used them. Learn local edibles to save weight on food. Berries, greens, roots, fungi, grubs, insects, nuts, etc. I'm not suggesting you become a hunter here (though that's great if you have the time), but just being aware of what you are walking through can score you some calories. Plus, it's kinda fun to add taste to the way you experience your environment. Moths are particularly worth eating.

The berries and moths is kinda pushing it...flash back "into the wild" when he eats the wrong leaves. Thank you though.

CANS OF BEER!

They are much faster to open, and lighter than bottles.

muttonface wrote: +1 If you throw in the occasional wood roach, you get a nice crunchy contrast. Like adding walnuts to a salad.

I have never seen a wood roach neither have I eaten an incect to be honest

JLP wrote:Are you looking to go rock climbing, or to hike the Appalachian Trail? What "long approaches to climbing areas" are you talking about? Cirque of the Towers is ~4-5 hours in. Charlotte Dome is around 6. Same with 95% of the rest of the Sierra - and probably 95% of the lower 48 as well, if not the entire planet. There are very few remote areas left that can't be reached in a 1/2 day of hiking. Otherwise you generally either fly in or have mules and porters. My primary motivator for "light" gear hasn't been weight - it's been bulk - so I can fit more of that heavy climbing gear in my pack - or just fit everything I need into any pack at all. The only real way to go "fast and light" as a rock climber is to skip the bivy altogether. After a cold night on a thin pad and a dinner of reconstituted dog crap containing zero nutrition, you probably won't be climbing anything long and hard - why even bother with the bivy for it? Experience, fitness and knowing exactly what you need are the keys to going "fast and light", not choices made at REI.

Absolutely correct. I think most people forget the "fast" part and just try to go light. There aren't many climbs in the lower 48 that can't be done in a single push. Most of those require enough gear that lightweight isn't really an option. If your goal is to complete a climb or hike as "fast and light" as possible, training will help you more than shaving grams ever could. Look at what speed alpinists are doing: running the trail and doing the climb in a single push.

Personally I prefer the more comfortable approach for long trips. I haul my gear to base camp the first day, and spend the next few days taking it easy and climbing stuff. If I'm doing a single climb that doesn't require a 30lb rack, I'll usually just blast it in a long day.

paintrain wrote:At a certain point sacrificing weight correlates to your tolerance for suffering and running it out. Experience and credit card limit will tell you were that is. pT

+1

I approach in trainers, climb in my Trangos(which I carry strapped to the outside of my pack). My partner and I use a SD Origami, which is pretty damn light and sets up anywhere.

Mitch Zimmerman wrote:What light approach boots are you all using?

http://www.merrell.com/US/en-US/Product.mvc.aspx/22875M/50390/Mens/Barefoot-Run-Trail-Glove

I got into barefoot running a few years back and now I am a big believer in minimal support. I no longer buy the "you must have ankle support" theory. Eventually your ankles get strong enough and you are much less likely to roll them when you have a good feel for the ground. Furthermore, I never get blisters or foot pain for long approaches using these shoes. They weigh 12 oz and clip to your harness so you can carry them on climbs and not even feel them.

I have used these on multi-day back packing trips carrying heavy packs. I would say if you have to cross lots of snow, I would use something heavier (obviously, you cannot use these for crampons). I've found these are not only light and comfortable, but they are fine for most fourth class scrambling as well...

That being said, I would work up to using these on shorter hikes and approaches until you have more foot strength.

I have been wearing Salomon trail runners as approach and hiking shoe for a while now iodine tabs for water is a good tip now its just a matter of not bringing stuff I don't really need mostly that " comfort stuff"

Newton wrote:Build a fire and make a ground bed. In lots of situations, you can get by without stove & fuel, tent/tarp, pad, and sleeping bag (I usually carry a puffy, hat, and baselayer bottoms if I forgo the bag). Between a pack, a rope, and local vegetation, you can usually pad and insulate yourself pretty well. Some of the most comfortable nights I've spent outside were on a bed of pine boughs or dry grasses. Obviously this is harder if you're dealing with wet/snowy conditions. Also, make sure you prevent the fire from setting your bed ablaze.

Please don't go building fires and cutting off live pine bows in Colorado. There are simply too many people in the outdoors now for this not to be impacting. Sorry for the rant but I'm sick of seeing more fire pits, hacked vegetation, and toilet paper around backpacking and climbing areas. Yes the vegetation will grow back and the toilet paper is biodegradable, but there are simply so many more of us enjoying the outdoors now that things that were once inconsequential in small doses now truly impact other peoples chance to experience the same wilderness. We cannot just hide our trace or spread out our trace to remote anymore because there aren't any more "remote" areas in Colorado. Leave the pad and stove at home if you want to cut the weight, but let's all practice leaving no trace.

Wow, thanks you guys. I've learned so much. Mostly that you all are way more hard core than I am.