Via Ferrata - Greater than factor 2 fall risk

I was just thinking about purchasing a few screamers for solo aid and I started thinking about the screamer in a via ferrata rig. It seems to me that when you are tethered to one of the cables oriented vertically, as opposed to a rung, and near the top of the cable, the potential for a fall factor is much higher. Perhaps as high as 4 or 5?

ZachR wrote:I was just thinking about purchasing a few screamers for solo aid and I started thinking about the screamer in a via ferrata rig. It seems to me that when you are tethered to one of the cables oriented vertically, as opposed to a rung, and near the top of the cable, the potential for a fall factor is much higher. Perhaps as high as 4 or 5?

Petzl makes a teather with built in screamers made specifically for via ferrata. Check out their web site. You could probably rig one yourself with some Yates Screamers.

Yep, it can be much higher because the length of the rope is only the length of your pigtails and a fall could be quite long. That's why you are not supposed to do a Via Ferrata with just a daisy or something like that.

The good news is that as a climber you would have to actively try to fall on a via ferrata!

I'm confused. How could a fall factor ever be larger than two? If you are using a 120cm sling to attach to the cable or rung then the farthest you could possibly fall is 240cm; right?

Oh I see what you mean... you're going to fall until your biner catches the last point where the cable is connected to the rock. So you could go quite along ways. Is fall factor the best way to describe this kind of fall though?

ryan, its not the best way to really describe it, but its the most understandable for everyone.

the problem with vias is they are so unique, very few in the US, they arent held to any standards, ACCT thinks they can be held to challenge course standards, but they're anything but. They're more climbing oriented as far as the hardware we use on them is definitely adapted from the climbing world, but they're run almost similar to a challenge course as far as numbers of people through.

so who knows, i've climbed a few of them in the US now with work...and some are just plain ole terrifying as far as the distance between the bolts and loops of cable, a few vertical sections on the one in Utah were actually 20'+ imagine going on a tumble bouncing off rungs for that distance...no thanks.

Ryan Williams wrote:Oh I see what you mean... you're going to fall until your biner catches the last point where the cable is connected to the rock. So you could go quite along ways. Is fall factor the best way to describe this kind of fall though?

Have to agree - the fall factor is the ratio of fall distance to the length of (dynamic) rope. So yeah, the FF could be higher than 2 because the biner slides along the cable. As you say, FF is probably the wrong way to analyze it. The Via Feratta lanyard should have a specific amount of energy absorbing ability, and as far as I know there are no dynamic rope components in the system. So I would expect both the lanyard rating and the energy absorbed to be based on weight and distance fallen (actually speed, but that is related to distance for a clean fall).

Still, I would not want to fall on one; As mentioned above by another the fall would not be clean at all.

Had me curious - anyone else that is take a look at petzl.com/files/all/it/prod…

In summary: rated for 80kg climber, 5m total fall, and extends by 1.2m max with a 6kN max force. Picture #3 in the referenced document.

By contrast, the nitro screamer has a max force of 2.5kn. (ref: petzl.com/files/all/it/prod… )

You're right, FF is probably a poor way to describe it and it would definitely be tough to fall on something that easy.

The route I did in WV limited the vertical falls by anchoring the cable every 5 feet or so. Even so I'd image a fall like that would feel like being hit by a truck.

The routes are great fun too. As long as they keep it to private land and don't go installing rungs across the face of El Cap, it's a great way to spend an afternoon.

Fall factor only has meaning when your attachment has a significant dynamic component.

muttonface wrote:So, if you're anchored in with a couple slings, let's say 90cm nylon, you can't climb above your anchor three feet, fall, and produce FF2 forces on your anchor? It may have some meaning in that scenario.

The point is that falling 3 feet on 3 feet of static cord doesn't generate more force than falling 3 feet on 6 feet of static cord.

You're no safer with the factor 1 fall than with the factor 2, because the extra length out doesn't absorb force.

Ryan Williams wrote:Oh I see what you mean... you're going to fall until your biner catches the last point where the cable is connected to the rock. So you could go quite along ways. Is fall factor the best way to describe this kind of fall though?

I was hoping for a new Gravity thread...I was dearly disappointed once I thought about it.

As someone who has only the bare minimum of understanding of what a via ferrata is, can someone explain (or point to a good/free resource for leaning about) what makes a via ferrata difficult in contrast to a difficult technical rock climb? I know it's the most inane type of question, but my idea of via ferrata is basically just an iron ladder pounded into a mountain, and Wikipedia isn't helping much.

try looking at w-o-w.com/blog/uploaded_ima…-(25)-742872.JPG

You climb a ladder of steel rungs - and the safety is a cable anchored every so often next to it. You clip into the cable and fall to the most recent anchor, where upon your shock absorbing lanyard deploys. There are other options, for traverse, bridge, etc, but the basic protection is the same.

The big difference - I never heard of anyone falling on a via ferrata. I'm sure it has happened, just saying the rate is low compared to climbing.

Obviously some misconceptions about via ferrata out there!

Have a look at youtube.com/watch?v=Po61lFm… for possibly the hardest one in the world. There are subtitles in English later on.
They recommend you be able to climb 5.10c, and don´t fall off.

You´ll find more easily understandable information gebnerally if you look for "klettersteig" as this is what they are called in the German speaking world.

Via Ferrata routes come in all "shapes and sizes". I'd agree that any sort of long fall would be quite unlikely on ones like the route in Telluride, for example.

unofficialnetworks.com/ferr…

Dan Austin wrote:As someone who has only the bare minimum of understanding of what a via ferrata is, can someone explain (or point to a good/free resource for leaning about) what makes a via ferrata difficult in contrast to a difficult technical rock climb? I know it's the most inane type of question, but my idea of via ferrata is basically just an iron ladder pounded into a mountain, and Wikipedia isn't helping much.

Nothing. Any lard ass can do a via ferrata if they can climb a ladder. You can lock your elbows through rungs and rest whenever you want. Or hang on your lanyard.

Jim Titt wrote:Obviously some misconceptions about via ferrata out there! Have a look at youtube.com/watch?v=Po61lFm… for possibly the hardest one in the world. There are subtitles in English later on. They recommend you be able to climb 5.10c, and don´t fall off. You´ll find more easily understandable information gebnerally if you look for "klettersteig" as this is what they are called in the German speaking world.

There doesn't appear to be any technical climbing involved; beyond the upper body strength - the same kind necessary to rope climb like in gym class- how is this the equivalent of a 5.12 route? It would seem to me that anyone with acceptable footwork and good upper body strength could haul this thing? Am I missing something?

hand over hand up a steel cable! That looks so much more fun than actually climbing.... haha

Jim Titt wrote:Obviously some misconceptions about via ferrata out there! Have a look at youtube.com/watch?v=Po61lFm… for possibly the hardest one in the world. There are subtitles in English later on. They recommend you be able to climb 5.10c, and don´t fall off. You´ll find more easily understandable information gebnerally if you look for "klettersteig" as this is what they are called in the German speaking world.

Those Germans, they have a different word for everything.

Bowens wrote: There doesn't appear to be any technical climbing involved; beyond the upper body strength - the same kind necessary to rope climb like in gym class- how is this the equivalent of a 5.12 route? It would seem to me that anyone with acceptable footwork and good upper body strength could haul this thing? Am I missing something?

I thought he was saying the route would be a 5.12 if you were to free climb it.