Red Rocks: Heliotrope vs Sunflower -- beta please

Both have R ratings but it seems like the posted feedback is that Heliotrope has more serious runout on (maybe?) harder terrain. Am I correct in my interpretation?

I have led some serious 5.8 R a few times before but I really don't gun for this type of thing and prefer to avoid in general right now. I am more comfortable leading runouts in the 5.6-5.7 range. Or, I don't mind 5.8 R if the 5.8 occurs soon after protection. With this in mind, which route would be better for me?

Thanks in advance.

The run-outs on Heliotrope are a little long but over moderate terrain. Sunflower had some bolts added back in approx. 2005 so the run-outs are not as long as they used to be but the climbing at those spots is harder than anything on Heliotrope. They are both fun routes, not too serious by J. Tree or Tuolumne standards.

I haven't climbed Heliotrope but sunflower is a fun route and IMO the runouts aren't bad. The only thing that I felt was scary is the rock you are standing at the top of the third pitch. It's some horizontal flakes that will be fairly dangerous to the follower if they go.

I have climbed both routes and consider Sunflower a far better option, just better rock and climbing in general. I don't consider Sunflower "R" at all.

Sunflower
Heliotrope

Good Luck.

Wellllll, I doubt you'll get anything objective out of me, but I'll try. The way I see it, Heliotrope currently is what Sunflower once was: a heads-up route requiring careful climbing some distance above gear. Remember-- when Sunflower went up, the crux pitch had only two bolts. It has now been bolted into a pleasant romp without major consequences or head games.

For me, Heliotrope will always be one of the high points of my climbing life. I had the extreme good fortune to be in on the FA with good friends and partners John Hegyes (see above), Ryan McPhee, and George Urioste. George had been coming back from an injury and was not feeling in the highest morale. He wasn't even planning to lead anything. When we got to the start of the third pitch and he saw the line, the spirit came back and he asked for the sharp end. You couldn't help but to feel elevated to see the inspiration take over with him. Beyond that, the route was a salute to the good ol' days of meeting the mountain on its own terms, with nothing more than natural pro and commitment. All these things add to the rewards of the experience and are the reason I prefer Heliotrope.

So, if you don't mind the old-school stuff, I think Heliotrope has a lot to offer. (And I'm pretty far from any kind of good climber, so if I was able to work it out, it probably isn't out of reach.)

My memory of Heliotrope was that there were substantial runouts. I don't think the climbing was really 5.8 though (certainly not by Gunks standards) and it wasn't high-pressure climbing: you could think about what you were doing. (I'm not including the first pitch, which I think Heliotrope shares with Sunflower. I thought that was pretty insecure but there the protection is decent.)

I remember a belay, however, that I thought was worrisome: a bunch of finger-size cams in a single horizontal crack, no bracing for the the belayer. And when the leader heads off on the next pitch, they don't get any gear in for a while, so that anchor is all there is between the party and oblivion if the leader blows it.

I did a RR trip report on Supertopo a few years ago that included Heliotrope: supertopo.com/tr/A-Week-in-….

I have done both. Heliotrope's runouts would test a 5.8 leader for sure-- you could take a forty-footer-- but your weight is always on your feet on decent holds. Don't do it if yiu are new to the grade. You also ha e to build belays. Sunflower is mellower but not as rewarding. I did it pre-retro and post-retro. Too many bolts imho but still an excellent moderate, certainly much better than Solar Crowd.

Larry DeAngelo wrote:For me, Heliotrope will always be one of the high points of my climbing life. I had the extreme good fortune to be in on the FA with good friends and partners John Hegyes (see above), Ryan McPhee, and George Urioste. George had been coming back from an injury and was not feeling in the highest morale. He wasn't even planning to lead anything. When we got to the start of the third pitch and he saw the line, the spirit came back and he asked for the sharp end. You couldn't help but to feel elevated to see the inspiration take over with him.

Larry, thanks for the recollection, that was definitely a good day, one of my better climbing days as well.

There is a lot of good info on this discussion; for further reading, check out the companion thread:
Sunflower vs Sundog?

I did Heliotrope 2 days ago. No runnouts until pitch 4. At that pitch the belay is small cams in a relatively shallow crack so who knows. There is good gear early then some good runnouts. Initially I went straight up off a piece 20 feet above the belay - after 20-30 feet there was no gear so I down climbed a bit and traversed left to a good flake that I could clove hitch and clip. Then straight up on good holds and gear. The pitch was not difficult but I think the straight up no gear option for a long ways was too risky given the questionable belay strength and my families need for a dad. Go left after 20 fet then up and it is no worry.

The two best routes on upper Solar Slab in that grade range are really Sundog (to the right) and Arch Enemy to the left (which can be combined with Beulah's Book to Sunflower for a nice straight up link of three routes. Arch Enemy is by far the most interesting route on Solar Slab....without question.

Thanks for all the great info. I didn't get to do any link-ups for various reasons this time, but I hope to use these recommendations again soon!

Tim Wolfe wrote:I did Heliotrope 2 days ago. No runnouts until pitch 4. At that pitch the belay is small cams in a relatively shallow crack so who knows. There is good gear early then some good runnouts. Initially I went straight up off a piece 20 feet above the belay - after 20-30 feet there was no gear so I down climbed a bit and traversed left to a good flake that I could clove hitch and clip. Then straight up on good holds and gear. The pitch was not difficult but I think the straight up no gear option for a long ways was too risky given the questionable belay strength and my families need for a dad. Go left after 20 fet then up and it is no worry.

It's been a few years, but I thought Pitch 3 either had runouts or maybe it was questionable small gear. Also, I'm pretty sure we diagonaled left from the belay on Pitch 4 rather than the straight up, then left path you describe. We probably ended up where you did after your traverse.

We linked Heliotrope and Beulah's Book, which made for a nice day. Then on the way down we got a rope hung up on the Solar Slab rappels, which made for a nice night.