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Nomics vs Cobras

Original Post
Mike Washburn · · Orem, Utah · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 30

I've looked around on MP and online for this topic but haven't found much. I'm thinking of getting new tools this fall. I climbed on the old nomics several times last year and really liked them. I handled the new cobras in the shop last year and swung them at the ice for about 5 minutes when I ran into another climber with a pair but I didn't have the time to really climb on them. I did like the cobras despite my limited trial time. I'll mostly be climbing ice in the Provo area and some mixed. My emphasis will be WI 4 and 5. Has anyone used both tools enough to have a good opinion? Also any insight on nomic availability this fall?

Dane · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 562

I have climbed on both a bunch.

Totally different ideas behind the two tools.
Quick take..Cobra is a good hard alpine tool. The Nomic a much better technical tool on mixed and ice. But obvioulsy there is a huge over lap on that statement as both tools will climb just about anything in the right hands.

Petzl has an obvious advantage of better picks in material and design. Carbon shaft is a winner on the Cobra.

In the end it is still the Indian not the arrow...but when pushed I want the Nomic over the Fusion (climb on that one as well) or Cobra anywhere any time.

New improved Petzl stuff will be back this fall and worth the wait.

Auto-X Fil · · NEPA and Upper Jay, NY · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 50

That's a Nomic application for sure. Cobras would work just fine, but their leash attachments and plunging ability would be wasted, and the Nomics prolong the pump a little longer.

If it was me, I'd get the Grivel Quantum Race for hard ice cragging. But, I'm a Grivel whore and there are practical advantages to the Nomic, like availability of spare parts.

mountaineer.com/store/merch…

Brice Harris · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 0

I love the nomics, haven't used the cobra much, but my friends who've owned them said they don't like the picks as much, apparently they've had a lot of issues with breaking them. They do a lot of mixed climbing so that's part of the issue.

Derek Doucet · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 66
Mike Washburn wrote:I've looked around on MP and online for this topic but haven't found much. I'm thinking of getting new tools this fall. I climbed on the old nomics several times last year and really liked them. I handled the new cobras in the shop last year and swung them at the ice for about 5 minutes when I ran into another climber with a pair but I didn't have the time to really climb on them. I did like the cobras despite my limited trial time. I'll mostly be climbing ice in the Provo area and some mixed. My emphasis will be WI 4 and 5. Has anyone used both tools enough to have a good opinion? Also any insight on nomic availability this fall?
2 cents from another who's climbed on all the tools in question:

I prefer the Nomics over the Cobras for cragging applications. The main reason is that Charlet / Petzl has always had far superior picks (IMO) to anything BD has produced.

That said, last season I climbed a ton of waterfall ice on a pair of the new Quarks, and believe that for pure steep ice, they are the best of the lot. My Nomics generally stay at home now unless signifcant drytooling is on the agenda. I still love them, but the new Quarks are just hard to beat on straight ice...
Chris Plesko · · Westminster, CO · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 485

I really like my Cobras and I haven't had any issues with picks. I haven't done a huge amount of pick torquing but i've definitely done it.

I've spent some time on offset handle tools (mainly orange fusions but also nomics and green fusions) and I think they're sweet in steeper terrain. I still prefer my cobras for vertical or just over vertical terrain, WI4/m5 ish.

Dane · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 562
Derek Doucet wrote: That said, last season I climbed a ton of waterfall ice on a pair of the new Quarks, and believe that for pure steep ice, they are the best of the lot. My Nomics generally stay at home now unless signifcant drytooling is on the agenda. I still love them, but the new Quarks are just hard to beat on straight ice...
Don't totally agree with all that but no flies on the new Quark. It is a Nomic head on a slightly less technical shaft. And the price is exceptional as well.

Hadn't come to mind in this thread but if one was looking for one tool to have the best of both the Cobra and the Nomic...newest Quark would be it. Quark might actually be a better tool for most things than either of the other two. And I don't say that easily as I like my Nomics a lot.
coop Best · · Glenwood Springs, CO · Joined Jan 2005 · Points: 485

What are some more opinions on the Grivel tools?

divnamite · · New York, NY · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 90
Dane wrote: Don't totally agree with all that but no flies on the new Quark. It is a Nomic head on a slightly less technical shaft. And the price is exceptional as well. Hadn't come to mind in this thread but if one was looking for one tool to have the best of both the Cobra and the Nomic...newest Quark would be it. Quark might actually be a better tool for most things than either of the other two. And I don't say that easily as I like my Nomics a lot.
I love the new Quark's swing, but I have reservation on the new Petzl ice picks. My old quarks' cascade pick are bee's knees when it comes to pure ice climbing. I'm having a hard time cleaning, especially on slightly bumpy ice (uneven surface).
MikeJ · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 0

I've climbed on both, and would take the Nomics over the Cobras, hands down. Picks are better, swing is better. You can climb lower angle stuff in them too, no problem (surprisingly).

If you really need a hammer for something alpine, there's a company that sells hammers for the Nomics.

bobmirko · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2010 · Points: 100

I tried both, I think with the Cobras you fell your shot better than with the Nomics. I think it's a matter of preference but the Carbon do a big difference, I tried the Viper and it's really different for the best.

Chris Sheridan · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 1,698

I had some rockfall take pretty decent chunk out of the shaft of an old pair of cobras. Between that, and the amount of scratches I have on my current pair of vipers, I don't think I'll ever buy a carbon fiber tool. Then again, I'm kind of a weirdo. I want to be able to shove my icetool in a horizontal crack, mantle up onto it, then stand on it in crampons without worrying about it ;-)

Chris Plesko · · Westminster, CO · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 485

I stood on my Cobras jammed in a horizontal last year Chris, they're doing okay so far(!)

Mike Washburn · · Orem, Utah · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 30

Thanks for all the feed back! This has kind of confirmed what I was already thinking, probably nomics. That said, we should be seeing the new improved nomic pretty soon right? That is the retooled new nomic?

Dane · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 562

Nov. for the newest tools from Petzl. Minor changes in the pommel from last year for the 2011/2012 Nomic and Ergo.

"My old quarks' cascade pick are bee's knees when it comes to pure ice climbing. I'm having a hard time cleaning *the new*"

Easy fix. They changed the first tooth a bit on both the newest ICE and the DRY pick and made the pick angle a bit steeper (+2 degree) as well. Just trim the first tooth and they will clean and climb ice just like the original Cascade picks. The hook on the new ones will climb mixed a little more securely in factory form.

Details and a visual on the differences here:

coldthistle.blogspot.com/20…

Kevin Connolly · · CO · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 0
coop wrote:What are some more opinions on the Grivel tools?
i used matrix techs for a year and a half, didn't really like them. the picks suck, they are 5mm thick. they will never break but combined with the extremely light weight they are hard to stick and when you do drive them in they are harder to clean, and harder on thin and brittle ice. also the grips are really small and i have fairly large hands so i seemed to get pumped way faster on those than a petzl or bd tool. the quantums, same tool but carbon shaft, are ground on the sides of the pick and seem to have more weight in the head so swing better but i haven't actually climbed on them. i bought a pair of the new quarks toward the end of last season, they are almost as light but much better all around.
Auto-X Fil · · NEPA and Upper Jay, NY · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 50
coop wrote:What are some more opinions on the Grivel tools?
I have climbed extensively on original Nomics, current Vipers, and Quantum Techs, often taking laps on the same ice/mixed climb with different tools. I've climbed up to WI5 and M7 on all three.

On hard climbs, the Nomic is the best. The extra handle offset provides the best pump relief, it doesn't flex much on torquey mixed placements, and the picks are excellent. It's also a great choice for most people because the grip is adjustable to work for most hand sizes.

Vipers are really heavy, and I don't like the balance. That said, they are cheap, bomber, and they are better than every tool that was on the market only a few years ago. They also have the best leash options and the most configurability. Picks are a touch too hard and the Laser tips will break off if you abuse them.

I love my QTs and wouldn't trade them. The advantages are unparalleled light weight (I'm a gram counter), beefy picks, and a simple, clean design. There's nothing to come loose or get lost. The swing is also excellent, with all the weight in the head and the supple carbon shaft. The downsides: the beefy picks are somewhat soft, and will dull quickly if abused. I can't imagine actually breaking one, though. They are not configurable, and don't plunge well at all. The skinny grips don't fit everyone.

For most people looking for an all-around alpine/cragging tool, I suggest the new Quarks. I have not climbed on them, but the specs and reviews all look spot-on. The weight is getting close to that of the QTs (they advertise lighter, but that's with no hammer or pinkie rest, which the QTs have), they are extremely configurable, and Petzl picks are the best out there. The only time I suggest QTs instead are if the swing and grip are just-right out of the box, and you know what you prefer ultimate light weight to customizing. As much as I love the tools, that's not many people.

Oh, don't overlook the new Quark Ergo. Just as people scoffed at the original Nomic as being only for steep dry-tooling, I think the "too agressive" Ergo is actually exactly what most ice and mixed craggers are looking for. I think the Grivel Quantum Race falls into the same category, somewhere between Ergo and Nomic, but I have not climbed on either, unfortunately.
Graham Johnson · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 0

I've climbed on both cobras and nomics, and own the cobras. I really like my cobras - great swing, easy to use on all sorts of terrain, especially alpine. I've climb a lot of steep ice and mixed with them and I've never had any trouble with the picks, but I climb with t-rated titan picks all the time. A great all-around, do everything well tool. I don't find the nomic as comfortable. They're both fantastic tools - if you can, head into a shop and swing both a lot and see which feels better to you.

Kevin Craig · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 325

I own both and mostly climb ice with the Cobras. The Nomic is definitely better for mixed and the swing is less fiddly (Cobra takes some work to get the swing just right). Fresh "out of the box" the Cobra picks are a pain in the butt to clean and take a fair amount of tuning to perform well - need to flatten out the first tooth and other stuff. Sounds like the new Petzl picks may suffer from a similar problem. Bummer.

I like the carbon shaft on the Cobras which seems to reduce my elbow tendonitis. I do run the old style hammers, however, both because the light hammers, to me, are just a bit too light when try to clear bad/plating ice and really suck for driving pins. The hammer and the spike are significant considerations for the Cobra being my primary tool. Other minor points, the Cobra head width is thinner so they rack to the ice clippers on my harness better and the picks are easier to replace in the field (one bolt, simple tool).

All that said, if the new Nomic hammer is functional and if they come up with a functional pommel spike, I might switch to the Nomic.

Bottom line is it's what works best for and what's important to you. They are both top-of-the-line tools.

Mike Washburn · · Orem, Utah · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 30

Thanks to all for the good advice. I just got my new nomics, they look and feel great. All I need to do is a little file work on the picks and pray for ice.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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