Mountain Project Logo

Oak Flat News

Linda White · · maricopa, AZ · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 100
kirra wrote: Should you seek to trade your voice for something, if the outcome led to a negative effect upon others in your community?
If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. Or in this case, you'll be known as a sell out.
kirra · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 530

... .. ... .. ... .. ... .. ... .. ... .. ... .. ...

the mighty oak was once a little nut that stood it's ground

ClimbandMine · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2001 · Points: 900
kirra wrote:... .. ... .. ... .. ... .. ... .. ... .. ... .. ... the mighty oak was once a little nut that stood it's ground
The rolling squirrel gathers no moss?
Manny Rangel · · PAYSON · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 4,788

The rolling squirrel in Oak Flat gathers no nuts no matter how hard he rolls when the mine gets through with the place...

kirra · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 530
Greg wrote:F8king amazing I get a big fat email from the Access Fund about saving Vulture Peak and it's two chossy, yet somewhat historic, aid routes (that haven't seen five climber days in the last 20 years), but they won't stand up and publicly oppose the destruction of more than 2500 boulder problems while Queen Creek circles the drain with Resolution Copper drooling over it. Guess it's easy when there's no big money involved. Not even saying it's not a lost cause, but there are some battles that need to be fought, even if you're going down in the face of overwhelming odds. Get those cards and letters going to Congress people!!!
+1 -while the AF sits on the sidelines, some people are doing great things... thumbs-up thanks to Sandy Bahr of the Sierra Club who publically spoke out about protecting our public lands in the Grand Canyon & Oak Flat areas

June 22, 2011 Video- ASU Channel 8, Host: Ted Simons ~Sierra Club Views on Mining Issues
Fred AmRhein · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2007 · Points: 512

Greg,

Per a link on Resolution Copper Mining's website on May 13th, 2011, at about 3:00 pm shortly after Rep. Gosar introduced the Oak Flat privatization bill on their behalf:

  • [The Gosar legislation] removes a 95-acre parcel of RCM land known as “The Pond” and $1.25 million earmarked to fund improvements, development and maintenance of recreational facilities on the Pond parcel. However, RCM is working directly with the recreation community to ensure this funding is still made available for these purposes.

securearizonasfuture.com/bl…

(Note: The web site link no longer leads to a statement that reads this way. It was changed shortly after being posted and no longer provides these details)

Per the corporate QCC Website tonight (6/23/2011):

  • "Queen Creek Coalition (QCC [,Inc.] ) has been working on an agreement with Resolution Copper Mining (RCM) pertaining to regional climbing issues. We hope to be able to share the results of this effort in the near future, but we are dealing with local representatives of a giant corporation and it has been difficult and time consuming to make progress. We are not at the point where we have an agreement in place that we can share. When we do, QCC will announce that fact promptly on this site."

Furthermore, per the corporate, non-profit QCC website (FAQ's, Oak Flat Land Exchange item)

  • "QCC is in the process of negotiating an agreement with RCM that it hopes will provide significant benefits to climbers. Until such an agreement is reached, QCC remains opposed to the exchange. However, if QCC determines that it is in the best interests of climbers to reach an agreement with RCM that requires QCC to abandon its opposition to the land exchange, then QCC will enter into such an agreement.

Fred

Note: The information summarized and excerpted above was found as indicated by the sourcing information provided via the public internet. The website securearizonasfuture.com's registrant via whois.com is indicated as Adam Hawkins. A quick google search reveals that an Adam Hawkins works for Resolution Copper and it is my understanding that they are one and the same. (See resolutioncopper.com/res/me… for instance) Furthermore, I am not a current, active member of the incorporated, non-profit QCC.
Linda White · · maricopa, AZ · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 100

So it looks like a group of a few people are making deals with a private company and representing the climbing community. Does anyone else see issue with this? Haven't we been down this road before? Sherman, etc.

I wonder why it's so hush hush? Maybe there is some money exchange going on? If this 'deal' includes public land, why is the public not involved?

Personally, I have issue with a small group of folks that do not want public input or allow the public at their meetings making deals and saying it is in behalf of the climbing public.

A lot of us have seen Resolution Mine/ Rio Tinto 'talk' about a lot of exchanges, or promises over the years, but nothing is ever put in writing with certainty or without loopholes.

  • I know a lot of folks read these posts. How does this make you feel, what is your perspective, or what are your questions?
Fred AmRhein · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2007 · Points: 512
Greg wrote: . . . I get a big fat email from the Access Fund about saving Vulture Peak
Greg,

The Access Fund also has an alert on its website: accessfund.org/site/apps/nl…

Some more facts:

Erik Filsinger, who put up the Vulture Peak post, is a board member of the incorporated QCC, and also its Secretary. He is also a member of the Arizona Mountaineering Club, and until recently, its Secretary also. (Sources: amcaz.org/newsletter/2010/1…, "contact" page of theqcc.org/ and amcaz.org/newsletter/2011/4… )

John Keedy, another AMC member who is a signatory on that Vulture Peak post, is also a QCC member. (same amcaz.org and theqcc.org sources)

Additionally, Bruce McHenry, a recent addition to the QCC Board is a "Director1" of the AMC. (same April, 2011, and QCC source as info pertaining to Erik)

Numerically, the AMC currently holds 3 of the 9 board positions of QCC, Inc., or 33%. Previous to the incorporation of the QCC a year ago, the AMC members comprised 2 of the 10 participants, or 20%.

Fred
Manny Rangel · · PAYSON · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 4,788

Nice, after all the BS from last year to vote on endorsement v. non-oppose the land swap legislation and they are back to pre-vote conditions! Except, the QCC board has replace a diverse group with a comfy homogenous bunch of amigos...

Fred AmRhein · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2007 · Points: 512

The Mayor of Superior will be the subject of a recall election in November. The town population is just over 3,100 people total (per wiki link), of which up to 300 signatures were gathered according to the article reached via the news link below. Evidently he is questioning the validity of some of the signers.

The Mayor has been a strong supporter of Resolution's efforts to privatize Oak Flat as was evident at the hearing on the Gosar legislation recently. The recall appears to reflect at least partly related turmoil and political divisions in the local community from what I've heard.

Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super…

Source: news.mywebpal.com/news_tool…

Fred

Fred AmRhein · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2007 · Points: 512

Evidently Representative Gosar, standing side by side with Jon Cherry, Vice President of Resolution Copper, and Superior Mayor Hing held a news conference just after the hearing on the bill that Gosar introduced on behalf of Resolution.

news.mywebpal.com/news_tool…

Per Mr. Cherry: "This ore body is over a billion tons, roughly 1.6 billion tons of ore that averages about 1.74% copper. Like I mentioned in the testimony today, it’s the third largest known undeveloped copper resource in the world.

Per the math, using 2,000 lb for a "ton," that's about 56,000,000,000 pounds of copper. If it's just $1 per pound (copper is currently trading at just over $4 per pound), that's $56 billion+ in value. This doesn't include the molybdenum they've previously reported or other trace elements such as gold, etc., that are usually also recovered from what I understand from discussions with local miners. (.037% Mo, per resolutioncopper.com/res/wh…)

Note: Resolution reports on the referenced web page that the amount of copper on average is 1.47% so the 1.74% in the article may be a transposed number? Or, and this is just a question to clarify, did he publicly divulge that the average concentration is ~20% greater than previously disclosed?

Fred

BGBingham · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2007 · Points: 60

Another gem from the article Fred cites above:

Cherry wrote:“That’s correct, typically open pit mining you do have the remove all of the over burden before you can even get to the ore and that does create a larger footprint. In this case, we don’t have that overburden to get to, this mining method is such that we actually go underground, the only waste material that we have to take out of the way is tunnels that we build to get underneath the ore body, from that point, we’re underneath the ore body extracting the ore, so there is much less waste that is generated from this mining method”.
This is typical of RCM PR. In mining, "waste" rock is rock that doesn't contain the sought after mineral, i.e. rock that isn't production rock. Cherry is painting a happy face here. He is giving the impression that there won't be much waste from this mine. However, the mine will produce a mountain size of tailing which is technically not "waste" rock but it is the spoil of the mining process.

Even more important is the fact that RCM doesn't have a place to put this tailing. I've heard that they are looking into acquiring Arizona State Trust land, on the west side of Gonzales Pass, to do so.

This is one reason that RCM wants to move through this quickly. Users of the Superstition Mountain Wilderness and residents of the East Valley/Gold Canyon/Queen Valley areas will be treated to all the "benefits" of a huge tailing dump (water, air and visual impacts), not to mention, travelers headed east on Hwy 60.

This project will change the economy and character of a good portion of the State of Arizona. If one listens exclusively to people like Cherry, it will only change for the better. There are plenty of people who don't think so and plenty more who just don't realize as of yet because RCM glosses over the negative impacts in the hopes that they win the political battle soon. We deserve better from our politicians and RCM.
BGBingham · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2007 · Points: 60
Cherry wrote:Jon Cherry answered this with “We are looking as a potential site for tailings disposal, we are evaluating a hand full of different sites, we have not made a final selection. That would be part of the final mine plan of operations that we would put out”.
Wouldn't it seem that if a private company (RCM) is asking for special consideration from the public sector, in an area that has many impacts on the public, they would enumerate the "hand full" of different tailings sites so that informed decisions could be made?

This process is being pushed too quickly and is a great illustration of why Congress should be working on reforming and modernizing the 1872 Mining law rather than granting hither and yonder dispensations without full evaluation. Not only would it benefit the public, it would benefit the mining companies as well.
BGBingham · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2007 · Points: 60

Representative Gosar was asked this question:

Miner-Sun_Basin wrote: Due to the concerns expressed during the hearing about the EIS [environmental impact study] being done after the fact, do you feel that the bill would need to be revised to include an EIS done prior to the Land Exchange?
To which he answered:

Gosar wrote:#2 is last time I looked, this United States is broke. So, is the tax payer willing to forefront that event and pay for it instead of Resolution Copper? I think it is a golden opportunity to get some reforms in the NEPA process, this area has been studied…this is something that should be streamlined at being able to look at and I think from the standpoint of the Administration, I think that when it becomes very apparent to the American people that we’re trying to have good common sense with good stewardship working with a good industry, everything will fall in line”.
Stewardship of Federal Land is a bottom line responsibility of our Federal Government. I would suggest that if they are unable to properly assess its value and to follow the rules that are written into law then they should forgo letting it slip away from public ownership.

Gosar did not answer the question. He said that the US is broke. He said that taxpayers would incur the cost of an EIS which isn't true. He said that the NEPA process should be reformed, which is a separate issue. He engages in magical thinking - to paraphrase: Common sense says that we are good stewards, the industry is beyond reproach and everything is going to be just fine. Trust us we know better than you.

Yeah, right.
Linda White · · maricopa, AZ · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 100

Hey BGBingham,
Good to see you so much on here. I've missed you at the meetings.
This is good stuff, IMO. Can you plese tell me what source you go these quotes from Gosar?

Also, I made a pretty nice contact list for writing and faxing letters to the House Natural Resources Committee and Subcommittee of Parks, etc. Please let me know if anyone would like it.

L

BGBingham · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2007 · Points: 60

Linda,

From Fred above. Here it is:

news.mywebpal.com/news_tool…

Here is another gem. In a letter Gosar wrote to Chairman Rambler of the San Carlos Apaches on 4/15/11:

Gosar wrote:As a textual constructionist, I always appreciate reviewing the organic documents to ensure compliance
Wish he'd apply this line of reasoning to the Executive Order document, which has been in force for nearly 60 years yet the Forest Service allows violation of the order what with mining activities happening on the withdrawal area as I write.

Of course one could go on in a big way with respect to the changing interpretations that Apaches have had to deal with in the area of Treaties.

Selected honoring of of documents.
Linda White · · maricopa, AZ · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 100

Thanks Fred & Brent. I guess in my laziness on this Sunday, I missed Fred's post.

All of this is very informative information. When I write letter's I sometimes quote, so this is helpful.

Thanks a bunch!
Linda

Fred AmRhein · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2007 · Points: 512

Just some more numbers related to the value of the the Molybdenum as reported by Resolution, .037%, or about .74 pounds of Mo per ton. ( resolutioncopper.com/res/wh…) Molybdenum trades for about $17 per pound right now, having been much higher and lower in the recent past. (see lme.com/)

So, 1.6 billion tons of ore yields about 1.2 billion pounds of Mo. If one looks at a lower value of about $10 per pound this amounts to $12,000,000,000+ of value.

So, just in copper (at $1 per pound) and molybdenum (at $10 per pound), a lower value of the reported deposit would be about $68 Billion based on these numbers. ($56 Billion + $12 Billion)

Of course this doesn't take into account any other elements/mineral produced that could be accounted for as part of the value.

Fred

kirra · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 530
Fred AmRhein wrote:Erik Filsinger, who put up the Vulture Peak post, is a board member of the incorporated QCC, and also its Secretary. He is also a member of the Arizona Mountaineering Club, and until recently, its Secretary also.
posting an alert for Vulture Peak and NOTHING for Queen Creek..!!!
I'm shocked...

It seems like just yesterday that he was campaining to SAVE OAK FLAT
Community rallys to save Oak Flat

Lindajft wrote:So it looks like a group of a few people are making deals with a private company and representing the climbing community. Does anyone else see issue with this? Haven't we been down this road before? Sherman, etc. I wonder why it's so hush hush?
Resolution Copper *wins* if they succeed in dividing our community again

These self-appointed-dweebs are not authorized to represent the climbing community OR MY INTERESTS in selling (or trading) climbing areas of Arizona to a foreign mining company

Folks should be outraged or are they just fearful they won't be allowed in to play in Erik Filsinger's clubhouses. No open membership is available in the AMC or qcc,inc (group that erik absconded with illegally last summer) if you want to save Oak Flat

I urge everyone to act independently and write letters to Congress, President Obama and to the Access Fund
thank you and have a nice day
Linda White · · maricopa, AZ · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 100
kirra wrote: These self-appointed-dweebs are not authorized to represent the climbing community OR MY INTERESTS in selling (or trading) climbing areas of Arizona to a foreign mining company
Funny...I just sent a letter to Jon Cherry saying that a small group of climbers do not have the authority to speak for the climbing community in this matter. IMO
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Arizona & New Mexico
Post a Reply to "Oak Flat News"

Log In to Reply

Join the Community

Create your FREE account today!
Already have an account? Login to close this notice.

Get Started.